But Mark?????

If someone could bre bothered to dig through the posts you wanted both Denis and Fev re signed also...

Youre deflecting and you cant answer the questions i asked of you...
The board is who i blame... they make the decisions on players, coaches and direction.
And Marky mark.. i can lead a charge against anyone i beliueve needs to have a rocket put up them.
Like your continual shifting a nd hiding behind youyr finger.
You add nothing...!!!

Tell me you questioned Fevs appointment again.. go on??

Just say i questioned Fevs appointment and ill happily look for your posts to the contrary.
Same with Denis..
Yeah you dont have time.. but youll be back on again posting so you do have time.

The best thing about the internet Mark is its all on record for everyone to see...

What your bomb shell did say is that you would get rid of Denis and the MC and everyone over 25!!!!.. that was after you were singing Denis praises earlier...
But thats unrealistic Mark!
Why would you get rid of Barnaby French???

Plus you refused to place the blame at the boards feet.. How is Denis coach if it wernt for the board i asked you??

Well you diudnt answer..

You ran for cover...

Like you do time and time again.
At least i admit it when im wrong...
You pretend you know whats going on and have a clue to obstacles that face the club.
You think its Denis fault...well we would have someone else if the board had a clue.. (if he isnt the right man)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Carltonclem wrote

How did you come to that conclusion?

depends James, the whizzfizz cup has been dismissed and upheld and spun around like a coke bottle at a teenage kissing party!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The "Kouta doesn't get on with Pagan" rumour is totally unsubstantiated. While Pagan didn't have the freedom to move him on due to his contract, he didn't have to give him the captaincy once Ratten retired. Not only has he retained Kouta as captain but has constantly praised him in the media and made him an essential part of the midfield rotation - hardly the actions of someone trying to marginalise Kouta.

These are probably the same people saying Kouta was going to retire before the 2004 season (he didn't) , then claimed that he had a disappointing 2005 season (he won the B&F FFS!!!) and are now saying that he won't be captain this coming year and the club will appoint Waite or someone similarly unqualified.

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In WADA we trust

I wouldnt be worrying about gameplans, Pagans paddock etc at this stage...until the off field stuff is right the on field stuff will never be right.
I dont pretend to have any inside knowledge of the board or administration but clearly its not working and we need major change.
Something has weakend Ian Collins resolve...maybe its his ill health but I think its time to be finding a successor and let the poor bloke get his health back..its too much the club and Telstra Dome...commone sese would tell us this...

Denis Pagan....like Verbs said we can say what we like but he has a contract and will seeing oout his contract...my own view is he didnt realise what a basket case the club was and rebuilding the playing list with draft fines, no money, no recruiting resources has proved too much for him...player problems is something he never had to deal with at the Roos and I think frustration has set in. I dont see Terry Wallace, Paul Roos etc doing any better..not with the off field setup the way it is...Pagan was available when we needed a senior coach and we all knew the going rate for him wasnt going to be cheap..so its no point crying about his appointment now...with his record he was the obvious choice.

Grant Williams.....doesnt seem to have the profile that someone like Geoff Walsh had when he was with the Blues and maybe as suggested he doesnt have the footy knowledge to match his admin skills...

re: recruiting...bit hard to be the best in this business with no resouces if you believe that article in the paper that suggested we spent the least on recruiting out of all the clubs....in our situation you would expect more resources to be pumped into the recruiting dept..

Maybe we should dip into the competetive balance fund and swallow some pride...this is the worst I have seen our club both on and off the field in mylifetime of following the club.

Its almost like a total rebuild required....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Kouta cops a caning cause he isn't vocal enough to be a captain and that's a fair point but then in the next sentence they put Waite up as his successor. Anyone heard Waite speak? Makes Kouta sound like Eddie McGuire.

There are heaps of people who say Pagan is rigid and doesn't alter his gameplan to suit the strengths of our list, but what strengths does our list actually have?

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Elwood it is a total rebuild that shining white CFC means nothign anymore. We have no charsima, no cool. This club needs to reinvent itself. It will not happen overnight but it will need the club to sell a certain belief to the members that things are happening. We need some energy!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

He did alter it after 2003. We bombed the ball long into the forward line in Pagan's first year, then when he realised we don't have a pack marking forward we delivered the ball on the lead to Fev etc

It is an interesting point though; what strengths does our list have?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Western Bulldogs were certainly better placed than we were, especially with their fleet of young runners, high draft picks and some established key backs. Sure their forward line wasn't functioning well but at least they had room in their salary cap to go for a Rawlings ... even though he didn't work out for them as they hoped.

Comparing Pagan's situation to Eade or any other coach for that matter is ridiculous ... the contraints he has been under from day one have been unprecedented.

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In WADA we trust

have my doubts about DP.Some of his moves gameday were mystifying to say the least.One of the common themes when a player is asked what Denis is like is He is from the old school.Maybe we have got the wrong coach.It is too early to tell,but to sign him on a big contract to the end of 2008 is another foolish club decision.

What if we are shit in 2007 after a shit 2006.Then we can safely say that DENIS IS NOT GETTING HIS MESSAGE THROUGH.


It amazes me that their can be only 16 AFL COACHES and with so many possible candidates we have 4 who seemed guaranteed of a job and all these teams failed to make the 8,3 of them finishing 13th and bottom 2.

Synners I am not the one doing backflips with a twist, while spinning around ranting in the middle of the playground. Reckon you would get a gig with the Cirus de Soleil or at the very least the Speilgal tent.

As for admitting when you are wrong

But for the record.

I believe that Dennis did not coach as well this year as he did last year, but the signs were encouraging at seasons end. I am looking to significant improve within the younger group next year and a more flexible gameplan

I support the current board, on the whole they have done a pretty good job in restoring the situation from the disaster Elliot left, there have been some errors of judgement but in the main a pretty good job. The fact that the board is activly seeking out mew blood deserves support not condemnation.

As for the administration, while Malouf has been described as a 'committee groupie' he seems to be running the business side as well as he can given the situation. There have however been some poor decisions made in regard to management positions but that seems to have been sorted out, with Kenny Hunter reveiwing marketing before he left, and the appt of a capable person leader in the membership department.

One thing people are tending to forget is that we are as a club are coming off a very low base with little or no resources avialable to work with. We knew that when Carlton One took over the process of recovery would take a long time, we also knew that there would be many setbacks and frusrations on the way. At the moment we are a little way behind where I expected us to be by this stage of the recovery process but not enough to cause me to much concern.

For the club to recover, it will take a lot of perserverance and patience not throwing temper tantrums every time the board/club does not do what we want.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

July 28, 2003? It was clear from round 1, 2003 that Pagan had an outdated game plan:

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/viewtopic.php?t=1699

Some other posts that made me laugh, it takes a while for the penny to drop with some of the clowns on this and that site:

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/viewtopic.php?t=2287

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/viewtopic.php?t=10943

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/viewtopic.php?t=4095

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/viewtopic.php?t=11364

And finally the funniest post I have read in my life, no surprises it comes from probably the biggest dud to every grace football forums with his presence - yes Paganite03

Lance for Judd...bad swap...irrational one if I may say so!
Not many key position players in comp, and CHFs are certainly not in abundance...Judd is a great player, no question! but a Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability, the only difference we have to invest more time and be a little patient with Davies...

If Whitnall was up for trade...I'm telling you without a question of doubt that there will be 15 other clubs begging for his services...Whitnall's problem is form and consistency...he will only achieve this if he asserts himself in games early and eradicates this belatedness that has overcome his play (i.e he comes into games too late when all has already been lost)..."Timing" is crucial for Whitnall, Asserting himself early and starting well in games will prove to be a valuable springboard for him insofar as his form is concerned.

Carlton God
Was, Is and Always will be the greatest ever
Leader of the people

see someone died cos the vultures are circling

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Wow. Dredging up 3 year old posts from an internet forum, in an attempt to prove that You Were Right All Along.

That's sad.

I guess all he's doing is proving the point that you lot don't listen to commonsense when it is put in front of you on a platter !!

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

I'm pretty sure I know WHY he's doing it - he pretty much spelt out his reasons in his post.

Perhaps everyone could ressurect every OPINION ever posted here, sort out those OPINIONS that may be, in hindsight, incorrect, and re-post them in an attempt to score some points.

As I said... sad.

but you see Sheik how is he right? People have Concerns, not facts, not right or wrongs, concerns... Fine... Pagan has three years to shove those concerns up people's concerned arses....


or not.


and still it would be concerns

not facts

not truth

and cerytainly not commonsense cos it wasn't common was it!

more like rare sense. Fine i am so glad that people want to beat there chests because we won the spoon. God love 'em!

Aaaaarararaaaa! (tarzan call)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Sad? Why insult the original poster by calling him sad, it was his idea to 'dredge' up old posts. I just simply ran with the theme of the thread - what i thought the point of internet forums were

John, I fail to see how a guy who has stuck to his guns all along (and copped plenty for it) is now considered sad because everyone else has jumped on his bandwagon !!

If anyone else had of been given the ridiculing that he has over his tenure then they would have just caved in to the pressure and changed their mind. At least CG (for all his faults) is prepared to make the early calls and fly in the face of majority opinion even if he gets hung, drawn and quatered along the way.

How is that ''sad'' as you put it ??

What I find ''sad'' is that no-one has ever had the guts to actually acknowledge that he was right way back then.

Far too easy for many of the members here & on TBV to run with the pack, you can hide easier in the middle of the herd !! Apart from Synbad, no-one else is prepared to stick their neck out for fear of being avalanched with a pile of backlash. Now IMO, that really is the definition of sad !!

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS