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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:07 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Clayman wrote:
It is not MM or Ratts, it is the system, key resources, structures and most important of all it is the vibe!


Thanks Dennis
Your jousting sticks are in the mail

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:33 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
99prelim wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
Punter22 wrote:
So what you are basically saying Goltz, is that it's no problems for a player like Jeffy to pick and choose when he's motivated to put in 100%.

That it's perfectly fine for effort to be conditional.

Synners is right - if that's the mentality of the playing group we really are at ground zero.

Effort comes from motivation.
Sure he had a good first year under Malthouse, but what has happened this year. Doesn't look near the player he used to be and other players are down too.
Usually when a coach loses the players, the motivation and intensity drops off. Can't tell me this hasn't already occured in the list.
Bag a player out on media, good move coach :thumbsup:


Self regulatory (intrinsic) motivation

The coach only adds the last 10% (if that)...And most coaches will tell you that!

Look at Nick Rievolt. Pavlich. They've played well under all their coaches. They just takes high personal responsibility for their actions on the field. Culture! High Expecttaions! Symbolism! Character!...that's what's also missing at Carlton apart from a terrible list

Do you honestly think Sam Mitchell would play poorly under a different coach?

Find another reason to pot MM. Your last one was weak.


Wow, well done. You named future hall of famers on their approach to the game. It isn't the Judd's and Murphy's you need to worry about, it is your inexperienced and mid level players that the coach has to understand and work out how to get the best out of players under performing. When players are proven to be quality players in previous seasons and they are totally off the ball the next season, the coach needs to work out how to get the player back on track, not just blast them on media and put them in the magoos. Does nothing for team morale or player / coach relationship.

Lets talk Horse racing. Efficient wasn't setting the world on fire before the 2007 melbourne cup. But, the trainer lloyd williams tried a different approach before the race. He got the horse doing hurdles and jumps to re jig the horse mentally from doing the standard preparation for the race. The horse came out, switched on and motivated. The jockey could of whipped the absolute shizen out of the horse and the horse wouldn't of won the race if he didnt change this strategy But, because lloyd changed the training strategy and got the horse switched on with a different mindset, the horse was ready to win the cup.

It is the exact same thing with human beings. If a coach repeats the same things, keeps cracking the whip and stating threats all the time, he becomes a bit old. 18months of that and some players will switch off if your not getting onfield success. If you don't understand how to get the best out of his players, then you won't get results.

I am pretty sure Hinkley has a good solid relationship with his players and knows how to get the best out of them.

Do you think if you put Malthouse at Port Adelaide, Malthouse would even have that team in the top 8?

Mick Malthouse profile
*35 years coaching
* 2 flags with a state of origin team in WCE
* 1 flag in 2010 which took 8 quarters to win
* $3,000,000 in his super fund by end of 2015
* Old style game plan in todays modern game.

Let us believe :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:35 am 
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John James

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:14 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Caroline Springs
Not a fan of MM, and I have mentioned in other forums that he is not the right fit for our club.

Anyway, I am resigned to the fact he will probably be around in the coming years.

One thing though, he needs to stop it with crap that comes out of his mouth each week. It is bordering on embarassing, and makes he and the club look stupid.

Just coach FFS


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:07 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2651
Age wrote:
Not a fan of MM, and I have mentioned in other forums that he is not the right fit for our club.

Anyway, I am resigned to the fact he will probably be around in the coming years.

One thing though, he needs to stop it with crap that comes out of his mouth each week. It is bordering on embarassing, and makes he and the club look stupid.

Just coach FFS


:clap:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:21 am 
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Robert Walls
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Posts: 3996
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
Wayne Carey has rated MM as one of the greats -

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/respected-and-feared-the-afls-best-coaches-and-future-greats-20140703-zsujx.html


He must not have read Redback's analysis yet, otherwise that might have swayed him .


Good to see he added the Kangas Coach at the bottom of the list as a pity inclusion :grin: :garthp:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:50 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 19470
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlto ... 6461186259

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:54 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Goltzenberg wrote:
Let us believe :)


Where can I join up to this 2009 supercoach comp?
I'm inspired!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
Bluey44 wrote:
Wayne Carey has rated MM as one of the greats -

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/respected-and-feared-the-afls-best-coaches-and-future-greats-20140703-zsujx.html


He must not have read Redback's analysis yet, otherwise that might have swayed him .


Good to see he added the Kangas Coach at the bottom of the list as a pity inclusion :grin: :garthp:

Pretty good article. I wonder who wrote it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm
Posts: 1234
Goltzenberg wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
Punter22 wrote:
So what you are basically saying Goltz, is that it's no problems for a player like Jeffy to pick and choose when he's motivated to put in 100%.

That it's perfectly fine for effort to be conditional.

Synners is right - if that's the mentality of the playing group we really are at ground zero.

Effort comes from motivation.
Sure he had a good first year under Malthouse, but what has happened this year. Doesn't look near the player he used to be and other players are down too.
Usually when a coach loses the players, the motivation and intensity drops off. Can't tell me this hasn't already occured in the list.
Bag a player out on media, good move coach :thumbsup:


Self regulatory (intrinsic) motivation

The coach only adds the last 10% (if that)...And most coaches will tell you that!

Look at Nick Rievolt. Pavlich. They've played well under all their coaches. They just takes high personal responsibility for their actions on the field. Culture! High Expecttaions! Symbolism! Character!...that's what's also missing at Carlton apart from a terrible list

Do you honestly think Sam Mitchell would play poorly under a different coach?

Find another reason to pot MM. Your last one was weak.


Wow, well done. You named future hall of famers on their approach to the game. It isn't the Judd's and Murphy's you need to worry about, it is your inexperienced and mid level players that the coach has to understand and work out how to get the best out of players under performing. When players are proven to be quality players in previous seasons and they are totally off the ball the next season, the coach needs to work out how to get the player back on track, not just blast them on media and put them in the magoos. Does nothing for team morale or player / coach relationship.

Lets talk Horse racing. Efficient wasn't setting the world on fire before the 2007 melbourne cup. But, the trainer lloyd williams tried a different approach before the race. He got the horse doing hurdles and jumps to re jig the horse mentally from doing the standard preparation for the race. The horse came out, switched on and motivated. The jockey could of whipped the absolute shizen out of the horse and the horse wouldn't of won the race if he didnt change this strategy But, because lloyd changed the training strategy and got the horse switched on with a different mindset, the horse was ready to win the cup.

It is the exact same thing with human beings. If a coach repeats the same things, keeps cracking the whip and stating threats all the time, he becomes a bit old. 18months of that and some players will switch off if your not getting onfield success. If you don't understand how to get the best out of his players, then you won't get results.

I am pretty sure Hinkley has a good solid relationship with his players and knows how to get the best out of them.

Do you think if you put Malthouse at Port Adelaide, Malthouse would even have that team in the top 8?

Mick Malthouse profile
*35 years coaching
* 2 flags with a state of origin team in WCE
* 1 flag in 2010 which took 8 quarters to win
* $3,000,000 in his super fund by end of 2015
* Old style game plan in todays modern game.

Let us believe :)


It will be interesting to see if MM ends up being one of those future hall of famers that you're referring to.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2651
Effes wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-will-go-top-with-mick-malthouse-carey/story-fnelctok-1226461186259



so our list was stuffed :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 23924
things I'd love to see~ number: 4,526.

three parallel realities on a big screen.
screen A: MM takes over as coach, and we watch what unfolds over 2years.
screen B: Paul Roos takes over, etc..
screen C: Ken Hinkley takes over etc...

things to be assessed
1/member participation
2/player improvement and performance
3/players let go, and players introduced
4/ influence, if any on Board, admin, and general vibe around club

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
Effes wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-will-go-top-with-mick-malthouse-carey/story-fnelctok-1226461186259



Good ol Duck. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2651
Bluey44 wrote:
Wayne Carey has rated MM as one of the greats -

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/respected-and-feared-the-afls-best-coaches-and-future-greats-20140703-zsujx.html


He must not have read Redback's analysis yet, otherwise that might have swayed him .


Good to see he added the Kangas Coach at the bottom of the list as a pity inclusion :grin: :garthp:





personnel and injuries :lol:

unlike 2012 :screwy:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 4842
That old article says more about Wayne Carey than it does us. :cool:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
..Goltz, just because MM is old, doesn't mean his game plan is.. ....I wouldn't judge any coach running our club at the moment, no game plan would work and I don't think we are carrying out MM gameplan.. ..we've seen it in only brief patches.... ..but an old game plan?, not by my reckoning.. ..it's not too dissimilar to free or swans, we're just struggling to field a competitive team...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Goltzenberg wrote:
* 2 flags with a state of origin team in WCE


Were the West Coast Eagles a rep team from 1987 or did it only become a rep team when Mick got there in 1990?

Can you please clarify?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
dane wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
Let us believe :)


Where can I join up to this 2009 supercoach comp?
I'm inspired!

Only played one season and retired. Was too easy against this quality of footy intellects on this site.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 6923
Goltzenberg wrote:
dane wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
Let us believe :)


Where can I join up to this 2009 supercoach comp?
I'm inspired!

Only played one season and retired. Was too easy against this quality of footy intellects on this site.


You critiquing the level of intellect on this site is like asking Max Walker to judge the Booker prize.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..Goltz, just because MM is old, doesn't mean his game plan is.. ....I wouldn't judge any coach running our club at the moment, no game plan would work and I don't think we are carrying out MM gameplan.. ..we've seen it in only brief patches.... ..but an old game plan?, not by my reckoning.. ..it's not too dissimilar to free or swans, we're just struggling to field a competitive team...

What is the game plan?
Why aren't the players playing to a game plan? Who's fault is that?
What part of the game did we see this brief patch of MM's game plan? What part of the game was it working in the pies game?
Does the game plan get exposed with a player breaking the lines and it can't be reset until next centre bounce?
Or do coaches know how to expose the game plan and that is why the players can never implement it consistently?
How long will this game plan take to implement? Nearly 2 seasons and no game plan implemented.
Do you think what is happening now will be magically fixed next season? MM's 4th season or 5th season?
Will memberships drop if this titantic scenario continues?
Will more 25k prize raffles be sold to make up the drop in membership?
Will the president sit back and be happy with poor crowd attendances, reduced memberships and reduced merchandise sales in the next season or 2?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:02 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3073
We went out and appointed Tricky Micky ....

We got what we deserved ... it was always a dumb decision.

Now we suffer ... and the years roll on.

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