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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Remembet Pagan doing the same thing
Poor workman always blame their tools

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
Cretylus wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Cretylus wrote:
then Mick had to address one glaring weakness that Ratten left him and that was our defence which was rated 14th in the league - cant get anywhere in finals without a solid miserly defense



That isn't quite right - Ratten left the team with a better defence than what we have now - even if you take into account 2012 injuries.

2010 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 7th on game %
2011 - carlton was ranked 5th on points against and 4th on game %
2012 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 11th on game % (with massive injury run)
2013 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 10th on game %

As for 2014, well carlton is currently ranked 15th on points against and 13th on game % (after 15 rounds)


the rankings of Champion Data are not just based upon points against

at the end of 2012 champion data had the Blues defense quality ranked 14th in the league

(from your post, 11th isnt all that different)

The point is carltons defense needed attention by Mick the moment he set foot into the joint.

Improve everything of course, but you cant get anywhere with an average defense. Yo can still win a flag without a class ruckman, and you can still threaten with a 3rd or 4th best midfield.

You have no hope if your defense leaks goals like a sieve or cant counter attack...

2012 was injury plagued.
Murphy didnt play most of the year, I think jamo was out. Carrazo was out most of the year and a number of quality players

If you have a few key defenders and key midfielders out then the ball will be going in there like no tomorrow. I think stats are great but think out side the box sometimes


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
ThePsychologist wrote:
Rexy wrote:
There has been NO BENEFIT to justify the cost.

It's a monumental DISASTER of an appointment by a board full of SPIVS !


Whilst I agree the club has been a disaster and the decisions they have made defy belief in many circumstances I think you are simply jumping the gun in regards to the coach. He has been there 18 months and has had one draft/trade period. It was a list on the slide. Ratten missed the finals in his last year. People forget that and keep referring to a prelim final previous to that. We scrapped into 9th last year.

Our better players are older and passed their best and their is no youth coming through. That is a poor list and I don't care who the coach is I don't believe we would be doing much better.

MM has a three year deal and believe he should be judged after three years. If by the end of this contract we have bottomed out and are heading back up the ladder with a talented young side I will be very happy because after a decade of mediocrity I believe that is our best way forward.

He needs to go because he cant be judged anymore.
He has lost the players, even yarran said the players are playing for themselves.
He won 92-94 gf with an expansion team in wce. 16 years later he was lucky the ball bounced over milnes head. Otherwise it would of been 2 flags in 30 years. I used to think he was a good coach back in the day, but now he looks lost and has a stagnant game plan that allows the worst teams in afl beat us.
If you can give me some confidence that he has new strategies or new ideas then I can change my view.

But he has got nothing but to blame the list.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
Drewgirl wrote:
I don't like this public bagging of players. What do you guys think?

Should be done behind closed doors. Not good for our image and trying to lure players to our club.

We need to show unity in this turmoil we are in.


Is there any other coach in the comp who has publicly stated his list just isn't good enough?.

I've heard coaches say that players aren't trying had enough, not following instructions and making errors, but I don't remember too many just curling the toes up and crying "ït's all too hard with these guys"

How bad is this team anyway?. All we here every week is how exciting the Pies are and how crapola Carlton are. But for a few kicks we had that game, MM can take some credit for that, but FMD he's used to being one teflon coated muther flower.

How is this suppose to help?

What possible benefit to the players or the club is saying they are shit?

There was a conga line of nuffies on this site who poleaxed Ratts for daring to suggest that a couple of players didn't pull their weight in games, but MM comes out and slags off half the team, time and again, and we are supposed to swallow this like it's icecream?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
cimm1979 wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
I don't like this public bagging of players. What do you guys think?

Should be done behind closed doors. Not good for our image and trying to lure players to our club.

We need to show unity in this turmoil we are in.


Is there any other coach in the comp who has publicly stated his list just isn't good enough?.

I've heard coaches say that players aren't trying had enough, not following instructions and making errors, but I don't remember too many just curling the toes up and crying "ït's all too hard with these guys"

How bad is this team anyway?. All we here every week is how exciting the Pies are and how crapola Carlton are. But for a few kicks we had that game, MM can take some credit for that, but FMD he's used to being one teflon coated muther flower.

How is this suppose to help?

What possible benefit to the players or the club is saying they are shit?

There was a conga line of nuffies on this site who poleaxed Ratts for daring to suggest that a couple of players didn't pull their weight in games, but MM comes out and slags off half the team, time and again, and we are supposed to swallow this like it's icecream?

Yes ratten did bag the players, but he was involved with the recruitment of nearly all of them bar judd most of them himself . Their is a difference don't you think. Incompetent recruiting and the overseer was rotten, but let's not have your dellussional rant hide that fact.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Thinking Ratten was the head recruiter is pretty "dellussional".


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
verbs wrote:
Thinking Ratten was the head recruiter is pretty "dellussional".

So he did not have a major say in proceeding, that's dellussional!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Upper Swan.
Never heard a coach repeatedly bag the list in public as much as this teflon coated mutha.

A better man would simply accept the limitations and work to fix them.

I can't remember ANY coach going down this track.

It's not a slip of the tongue it's 100% blame shifting.

He didn't need to say it. He could simply have said "we tried hard, we got close but some skill errors cost us" .

It's almost what he said anyway but he just couldn't bring himself to be associated with a group of players he's supposed to be coaching.

Weak.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
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And to accept a part time school principal as head of development.When other teams had 3-4, well you tell me.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
cimm1979 wrote:
Never heard a coach repeatedly bag the list in public as much as this teflon coated mutha.

A better man would simply accept the limitations and work to fix them.

I can't remember ANY coach going down this track.

It's not a slip of the tongue it's 100% blame shifting.

He didn't need to say it. He could simply have said "we tried hard, we got close but some skill errors cost us" .

It's almost what he said anyway but he just couldn't bring himself to be associated with a group of players he's supposed to be coaching.

Weak.

He is only saying what we have been quoting on here at nauseum. And he is right, lazy money grabbing players who think we should owe them a living and us as supporters should keep coughing up our hard earned to keep them living a lavish lifestyle.pfft.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Upper Swan.
Trigger wrote:
And to accept a part time school principal as head of development.When other teams had 3-4, well you tell me.


WTF are you talking about.? Your deflection skills are so well developed you must be related to him !!

This is MM declaring he does not want to be associated with a large number of his team.

It's the weakest display by a head coach in any sport I can remember.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
cimm1979 wrote:
Trigger wrote:
And to accept a part time school principal as head of development.When other teams had 3-4, well you tell me.


WTF are you talking about.? Your deflection skills are so well developed you must be related to him !!

This is MM declaring he does not want to be associated with a large number of his team.

It's the weakest display by a head coach in any sport I can remember.

What sports at senior level have you coached


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:20 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Adelaide
People here aren't disputing the fact he's right, it's more down the lines of what is he achieving by saying that half the list, and Ed Curnow especially, are crapola?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
Trigger wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Trigger wrote:
And to accept a part time school principal as head of development.When other teams had 3-4, well you tell me.


WTF are you talking about.? Your deflection skills are so well developed you must be related to him !!

This is MM declaring he does not want to be associated with a large number of his team.

It's the weakest display by a head coach in any sport I can remember.

What sports at senior level have you coached


HAHAHAHAHAHA
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All of them flower!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Goltzenberg wrote:
Cretylus wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Cretylus wrote:
then Mick had to address one glaring weakness that Ratten left him and that was our defence which was rated 14th in the league - cant get anywhere in finals without a solid miserly defense



That isn't quite right - Ratten left the team with a better defence than what we have now - even if you take into account 2012 injuries.

2010 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 7th on game %
2011 - carlton was ranked 5th on points against and 4th on game %
2012 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 11th on game % (with massive injury run)
2013 - carlton was ranked 9th on points against and 10th on game %

As for 2014, well carlton is currently ranked 15th on points against and 13th on game % (after 15 rounds)


the rankings of Champion Data are not just based upon points against

at the end of 2012 champion data had the Blues defense quality ranked 14th in the league

(from your post, 11th isnt all that different)

The point is carltons defense needed attention by Mick the moment he set foot into the joint.

Improve everything of course, but you cant get anywhere with an average defense. Yo can still win a flag without a class ruckman, and you can still threaten with a 3rd or 4th best midfield.

You have no hope if your defense leaks goals like a sieve or cant counter attack...

2012 was injury plagued.
Murphy didnt play most of the year, I think jamo was out. Carrazo was out most of the year and a number of quality players

If you have a few key defenders and key midfielders out then the ball will be going in there like no tomorrow. I think stats are great but think out side the box sometimes


Murph missed like 6. Jamo missed the last couple of games. Nothing extraordinary.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
Locke wrote:
People here aren't disputing the fact he's right, it's more down the lines of what is he achieving by saying that half the list, and Ed Curnow especially, are crapola?


I only just read that.

That's even worse.

Unbelievable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 7271
Yeah ... at this point would probably prefer a real 'can-do' coach ... one that sees the list all as men who can be taught and trained to play how they need them to play.

... rather than curling up the toes and saying its all too hard.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
cimm1979 wrote:
Locke wrote:
People here aren't disputing the fact he's right, it's more down the lines of what is he achieving by saying that half the list, and Ed Curnow especially, are crapola?


I only just read that.

That's even worse.

Unbelievable.

Even worse than your drivel, I doubt it.
We'll answer the question, were have you coached in a senior capacity, bar the public service.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
cimm1979 wrote:
Locke wrote:
People here aren't disputing the fact he's right, it's more down the lines of what is he achieving by saying that half the list, and Ed Curnow especially, are crapola?


I only just read that.

That's even worse.

Unbelievable.

He didn't say anything of the sort. He said look how to players with almost identical stars and meters gained can be seperated in the eyes of the public by 1 kick. Instead of reading articles which only include selective quotes and are written by those with an agenda, watch the full 9 minute presser on the club's website. He was actually praising Curnow.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHV2vc62IuA


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