Collo is a CPA. BV everything we do is determined by our finances including as l posted in another thread our trading of players. How bad are our finances? Depends on who you ask, but Collo is not noted for painting a happy financial picture.

Not sure if the cricket analogy holds up. I think test cricket hasn't changed all that much whereas footy is miles away from where it was in the early 70s. The rules have changed drastically - Centre square , interchange 22 man teams. The positional play has changed enromously from set positions to anywhere and everywhere as have the tactics. In cricket the mid-on stands where he has since WG was a boy. In footy the full forward is likely to be roaming in the back line at various times. Having said that Dempsey could certainly pass on some good tips on positioning and palming, but again we haven't appointed anyone to redress our tactical and strategic weaknesses. TS and GD may well be good, but real concern that there is still no-one to challenge DP and entrenched thinking and bring some new ideas to the table

Watching De Luca and Bryan it is obvious that ruckwork is not a core skill. timing of leaping, tapping, where to place your knees - this is all stuff that a traditional ruckman should know and these two don't.

I think the appointments should be seen as separate. We are woeful in the ruck when Barnie goes down. An old man teaching the basics to Aisake would be wonderful.

What sort of a gerry atric are you...?

And yet Lillee still manages to pass on advice about how to bowl in the one day game - the theories on which have gone all over the shop in the last 20 years.

The point is that Dempsey should be judged on what he does/has done as a ruck coach rather than what his "youth profile" is.

I reckon there's a fair chance Dempsey may have kept up with what's happening at league level over the last few years and his experience working with a number of different senior coaches shouldn't be underestimated.

Or perhaps fans on Talking Carlton can understand the modern game in a way that a Gary Dempsey never could...?

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

I have no doubt that Dempsey is as good a ruck coach as there is going around. I dont want jason ball or Primus just cos they are younger.

Ruckwork is ruckwork. It is one skill that has probably deteriorated over the years

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T E A M

I think the point some people are making is that while GD and TD may be useful in limited roles there is still no-one on the coaching panel who is likely to challenge DP or bring new tactical or strategic nous. GD may be fine as a part time ruck coach but he played a long time ago and I would rather someone with much more recent experience of the game. And I don't think that Lillee's ability to pass on the technical aspects of fast bowling is that relevant unless we make him ruck coach.

Swan McKay was on radio this week and said the club could have been declared insolvent ... that's how bad the situation was when the new regime took over. He had no need to exaggerate given he had just left the board when he told SEN this.

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In WADA we trust

We're all well aware of the financial situation the club found itself in.
I dont think anyone is suggesting the board is exaggerating.
The issue is how the club rectifies the situation.

We are selling the vibrant, innovative and progressive picture to our sponsors and delivering the opposite.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

what i am suggesting BV is that maybe there is no money there to spend. Now this would not stop JE but it may be that this board is just trying to get throught his period (when does Kouta's contract end?) getting down the debt as much as anything - Swan said they had knocked a lot off that 10 million owed - before being in a position to have money they can spend.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I love on this site how when the clubs financial situation arises that kouta's- campo and whitnals salaries always get brought up. We state that TD and GD are the best we can afford. And we all conviently forget that we have the highest paid senoir coach in the league. Who more than anything is sucking up the clubs finances and not producing.

It shits me to tears that this guy seems above all scutiny

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Rightly or wrongly SB, Pagan has been given time because of the draft restraints etc. but I'll give you the tip that if there's no improvement in attitude, effort and application of the playing group next year, Pagan will cop it from all & sundry.

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There's so much I could say...

I have no inside source so won't even try to speculate about the board but what I will say is that securing TD and Dempsey will have a positive impact to the team.

They are really development coaches who's strength is to teach the players how to play their respective positions. We do have a lot of young players and will draft more this year. The young kids need work on the basics first. TD and Dempsey are a great fit for Carlton.

What they are NOT is tactical, strategic coaches who will challenge Pagan in any way. But we are not even close to the finals let alone GF, so this is not important at this time.

When developing a list you need to focus on the basics first. Yes I agree fresh blood and ideas would be an asset too - but there is no silver bullet that will fix everything up at the club. Next year I would agree it makes sense to make further changes to the coaching panel. I think next year we will see some excellent players retire from the game and that will be when we can strike.

There are a lot of people at Carlton who are under pressure and Pagan is feeling it too - certainly all the posters on this forum are. What we are screaming out for is someone to win us over with a vision, ignite our enthusiasm. The fact is - we are not excited about the future - we dread the future. So even though we are may have made a great decision in getting these assistant coaches, we all seem to be luke warm on the decision. We we really do need is someone at the club to start selling the dream - capture the imagination of the players and supporters. and make us believe we are on the way to being a great club again. I personally don't see anyone who will do that - and I think this is the person CFC need make as the top priority in recruiting.

I personally think that GD and TD are both great gets. They are two of the greatest players of all time and would have so much knowledge to pass onto our younger players. Our players need to develop skill... tactics can come later.

Not only was Dempsey a great ruckman who played 329 games against class opposition; he was the best resting defensive ruckman the game's probably ever seen.

How many games were won/saved by Dempsey in the backline?

TD has to be a plus....an opposite to Pagan's intensity, and a great people person with a heap of knowledge that can only help all the kids on the list.

Reckon John Murphy would be pleased to see both of them at Carlton.

Okay Sydney Blue forget about the high Salaries of players maybe the club has no money hmmm maybe because we have White elephant in the Legends stand and have copped fines from breaching the cap and also copped fines for past Tax indescretions ..... so the slaries ae just the icing on th cake ... you can put blame on DP others will on salaries i prefer to blame the past admin who put the salaries in place .. breached the cap .. developed a white Elephant stand that has bled the club dry .. knocked back sponsers because Elliot wanted to cmoke at Optus.. ect ect ..

ALso for the record ... TD and GD maybe good options have to wait and see but as development coaches what the club needs is a good mentor and person who will stay back and work with players .. and Bring the group togther ... TD seems to qualify well for this.. And Dempsy well a more involved ruck coach can only improve on the current coach who is good but of course has a lot more demands on him in Politics

I might be a bit thick, but isn't there a salary cap? and total player payment levels? and aren't all clubs required to pay at least something like 92.5% of the salary cap?

To argue the club's broke beacuse of high salaries to footballers makes little sense to the likes of me.

You only have to go to the social club and look across to the other side of the ground to see why the club is broke.

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Sorry Sydney, I only picked your quote out because it is the most recent...but it really shits me when people say "on this site" and "everyone on TC says"...as if it is something peculiar to Talking Carlton.



Why not say that it is "Carlton fans in general"? I see it on Big Footy and TBV, and I hear it from my Carlton supporting mates who aren't on the internet, so it is hardly restricted to TC.


Right, now...bicker away amongst yourselves...I've vented.

Sorry Mrs C but I dont know what is posted on TBV or Big footy because I dont go there . I visit CSC occasionally but there is a general agression on this site ( sorry for those words again) to certain players and a certain coach keeps getting off scot free . I get a little sick of people from Carlton criticising everything that went on in the past because of a couple of bad years . I loved Carlton through the Elliott years and I am proud of it.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Wolfe dont start on the legends stand and the debt because its all a load of crap and you know it. The stands no longer have value because we dont play there anymore. The club has decided to move so therefore they had to right down their value. If we were still playing there then we would not have the debts being posted at the moment. The AFL had an agender to get Carlton to the dome to help pay off there debt there. Elliott stood in there way so they wanted him out and did what ever they could to get rid of him. If the Carlton community is stupid enough not to recognise this then so be it be thats it in a nutshell. As for TD and GD as far as I am concerned I dont know what they will be like but both have been round long enough now to prove there worth and I haven't seen any of it.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws