It's going to be difficult to get the forward line structured correctly next year I think.
I can see a 5 man forward line consisting of Fev (leading out of the square), EDDIEBETTS!!! (crumbing forward) and Waite, Fisher and either Kouta/Carlos/Hartlett(rotating of the bench) as roaming forwards.
A properly structured plan would need to be implemented so as Fevs' leading space is not crowded but that we have numerous "mobile tall" options that will stretch and confuse the opposition defence.

Therefore I see Waites role as one of 3 mobile forwards next year.

Your thoughts.

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There's so much I could say...

Start with Fev, Waite, Fisher with Deluca coming off the bench. Very mobile forward line. As we saw in the grand final, if your forwards are too slow, then the ball is easily rebounded.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Disagree.
Our forward line should consist:
Waite Whitnall Houlihan
Fisher Fevola Betts

DeLuca or Bryan to pinch hit if needed.

Whitnall is the key to our forward lines fortunes. He will take a very good player to stop and also release pressure from Fev thus allowing Waite & Fish the luxury of the third/fourth defenders.
Saddington has been recruited to help Thornton and therefore give Livingston (last chance) time to develop every game on the ground, and even Teague time to play across half back if needed.

That's my best scenario.

About what i was thinking. Probably have Houlihan and Murphy rotating through the middle.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

... so it seems.

Surrey, it’s about accentuating strengths and minimizing weaknesses.

Whitnalls strengths these days are reading the play and positioning himself in the right part of the ground.
His weaknesses are his immobility and lack of defensiveness against a direct opponent.
That’s why I’d play him loose in defense as a sweeper to pre-empt the oppositions forward attacks and clog up their forward line.
If he plays as a KPF the opposition double team him and his mobile opponent rebounds off him with ease and pumps it into their forward line in a flash.
The old Whitnall at CHF/Fev at FF plan is as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow and waaaayyyy past its used by date.

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There's so much I could say...

As much as I would love to see Lance starring at CHF I reckon when playing in defense he is our best attacking option. He ..if he accepts that role willingly...can tear opposition midfield defences apart with his smarts because he takes the best option so often rather than the obvious one.

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carn the blues

When did the key to our fortunes last perform well for a season at CHF?
We need to reassess our options and try new structures.
In the 3 years we have played this game style Lance has'nt been able to stand up at CHF.
Move on and develop mobile, accountable players who can take contested marks.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

While Whitnall is being double teamed Fev isn't and Waite/Fisher/Kouta have the 3rd and 4th best defenders playing on them.

The benefits of playing him forward are more than just his output.

Having said that, your point about him playing in defence are also valid

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

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Somehow I dont think Murphy will be playing a lot of senior footy in 2006, yet people are already naming him to play out of the middle?

I'd like to see Waite given a few jobs at CHB this year. I was concerned about his strength in the body contests in previous seasons but this year he has really figured that side of his game out well.

The one thing we are really crying out for is a quality CHB. Waite is quick, tall, skilful, great judgement and reflexes, and after one more preseason should be strong enough to hold a key defensive position or at least be trialled there.

If Setanta can work his way into the mobile tall role I think Waite at CHB should at least be a worthwhile experiment.

Sometimes a player's natural game needs to be sacrificed for the good of team balance.

Maybe Saddington will play CHB and this will free Lance up to play his customary CHF, but I suspect Lance wil still play down back a lot of the time and I have no problem with that.

With Saddington down back, this should enable Lance to play more as a floating, loose defender and we all know he is very good at that.

I, too, would like to see Waitey tried at CHB - now this may be the greatest stuff up of all time - so what? Think he is worth a shot and I'd Like deluca (if fit) at CHF maybe, if he doesn't mark it, no one else does either. Betts and co at his feet please.

Lance as a pinch hitter of the bench.

with Kouta

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think having Waite as soley a forward would be a waste of Waiteys potential. With the build he has, i wouldnt mind having him as a wing, half forward flanker, who is able to play in the center in the future. The attributes he has he could be a similair Kouta!. I just think he would be too good for a defender or a forward. Yes he could play forward when needed and allow him to play forward fo the time being but as time passes i would like him to play a more important role than just a 2nd tall!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Budzy wouldn't the weeknesses also be relevant if he played in defence?

Predictability never stopped the Lockett and Loewe, Brereton and Dunstall, Lucas and Lloyd, Reiwoldt and Gehrig shows. It is what you put around the cornerstones that make the difference like Clape, Rice and Pearce in 1995.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

No his weaknesses wouldn’t be as relative in defense because I’d be playing at least a 7 man defence with Lance playing loose (no direct opponent) in defence where he is smart enough to pre-empt opposition rebounds out of our forward line and clog up opposition forward space. If he can take a few marks in defence he has the smarts to set up forward attacking moves.

By taking Lance out of the forward line it throws a bit more responsibility on the shoulders of Waite, Fish & Fev as our key forwards. It’s time for those 3 players to take the next step.

Lockett & Loewe, Brereton & Dunstall, Lucas & Lloyd, Reiwoldt & Gehrig are/were simply better players than Fev & Lance are atm.

When Clape, Pearce and Ricey were running around we had a TRUE champion cornerstone CHF by the name of Kernahan beating not one but 2 opponents on occasions.
Lance Whitnall IS NO Kernahan.

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There's so much I could say...

The strength of the 95 team was Spalding (CHF), Kernahan (FF) with Pearce, Clape and Rice. Beautifull blend of players complementing each other.

You will win a flag with multiple options and not being one dimensional. Removing Whitnall from the front half opens us up more than some think. Fev cannot do it himself, Fish is not ready to play 22 games at CHF and Waite certaintly not the either. You want to kill these kids by playing them at CHF in a crash and bash style of game....go ahead but be prepared for their demise.

Take note Pagan.

Couldn't agree more that Waite and fish shouldn't play the old style crash'n'bash CHF role Surrey.
I want to see Waite & Fish as mobile forwards with Fev, Kouta and EDDIEBETTS!! as other different style options.

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There's so much I could say...

Happy to read so many of you are happy to keep Waite in the forward line. For a while there it seemed as though we all wanted to turn Waite into a dour defender... bugger that for a joke.

Looking through these lists of forwardline players we still seem to assume we need a bang and crash forward. Who at the most recent premiers filled this role? Barry Hall - more an intimidator than a bang & crasher. Lynch? Big but soft. Not convinced you need someone like that.

But if you insist on having one at carlton the only player on the list who shows any sort of forward desire to bang & crash is O'hAilpin. He wouldnt be a big stats winner, but more Spalding.

Don't we want an open forward line?



That's why you rotate them through CHF rather than just giving CHF to Waite or Fisher or Hartlett or whoever.

I'd even put Saddington in there, as I think he plays better as a marking type player rather than a CHB.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky