Agree

I will.

In 2010, the last premiership under MM, Collingwood had a kick to handball ratio of 1.33. Pretty comparable to GC isn't it?

Geelong had a kick to handball ratio of 1:1 in 2010 which they continued to increase thereafter (moving to an MM model?)

In 2014 they have a whopping 1.44 kicks to every handball.

But yeah it's MM's kick to handball ratio that has us in trouble.

Who said MMs kick to handball ratio has us in trouble?
Our problems extend well beyond Malthouses game plan
If you want to be offended on Micks behalf, at least be offended by something that isn't in your imagination.
I'm just rebuking the fact that GC won on the weekend because they somehow copied Malthouses game style.

Secondly, 1 season doesn't equate to MMs "model". go back and look at the stats over Malthouses tenure at Collingwood instead of picking one year that suits your argument and you'll get a credible statistic.
Malthouses game style traditionally involves a game style predominantly based around kicking.
His teams are marking sides. Gold Coast are 18th in the AFL and took a paltry 77 marks on the weekend.

Similarities = clutching straws.

And to suggest the best side of the past 15 years (Geelong) are going to copy a game style that's won 1 flag in the past 20 years, please….

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

..BV, I get your drift, but your averaging out of any coaches career to arrive to any stat is flawed.. ..instead, look at the seasons in order.. ..does it show any trends?, did he modernise his style that had gf's in 02/03 and later in 10/11..?.. ....I do recall at the time everyone talking up how current he was.. ..I also think the way we play, makes it very difficult to really tell how he wants us to play.. ..same went for ratten.. ....we just don't carry out any game plan consistently, it buggers up any averaging out..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

You can have the best game plan in the land, but it won't mean squat if you haven't got the cattle too.

This is probably the crux of our problems. I believe in Malthouses game plan in that it can work, but can it work for us?

how many teams went via the wings every chance they got?

thats how MM's structures and game plan is dismantled, quick ball movement through the center corridor. switches from one side to another.

MM had a strong system going, but it was predictable and inflexible.

Even the saints should have rolled the Pies in the first GF of 2010.

the cats sensational in the 2011 GF (and even gave the pies a 5 goal start and lost Pods in the second quarter)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Its not the cattle. This list of players dont do the basics consistently enough

Look at their 1%ers, contested ball, workrate, tackling etc...

Up against the bulldogs and the eagles, pathetic the next week.

The cats beat the tigers by a kick on the weekend. They were a few men down and running out of legs in the last quarter.

At 3/4 time, the tackle count was almost identical (49/48)

In that last term, the cats laid 31 tackles. Incredible stat. The Tigers had 12, the lowest of any of their previous 3 quarters.

The tigers walked off thinking they put in a good effort and were unlucky not to win.

the CATS knew why they won

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Can't argue with that, its the age old truth, those who want it most will win.

If the players don't do the basics is the cattle

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

But this cattle does it one week, and the next they dont even turn up.

It means they understand what it takes, and what the basics are.

that Bulldogs win was sensational - considering we were men down in that last quarter and the bulldogs full of running. But then the blues had their highest contested ball for the year (150) and their most tackles (88). Workrate was strong for 4 quarters.

Against the eagles a combination of poor kicking for goal by the eagles in that last term and our superior tackling (72 to 46) got us over the line.

Against the pies these basic areas were pathetic - the lowest tackle count for the year (49) and the lowest contested ball (117). the pies and the blues shared the possessions, but the Pies smashed us in inside 50s. almost double. thats due to quick ball movement and game plan.

Most of This list of players pick and choose when they want to do the basics.

Thats why they cant win more than 4 consecutive games - and why they lose some games whihc everybody picks them to lose - like the saints last year.

Its pathetic to watch

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

I don't see it as a matter of them picking and choosing to do anything, once they are faced by the pressure put on them by a top team they are unable to execute at the same level they can against a lesser side such as the Bulldogs or the Eagles.

We don't have the quality in the list to match it with the top sides, simple as that.

Hey, youre preaching to the converted here.
I'm more than happy for someone to offer a trend or some facts to support a viewpoint but what was demonstrated here? GC played "perfect MM football"
That's it! What's perfect MM football?

I get frustrated when posters make statements (often incorrect statements) and just walk away from them with no responsibility. (Hello Michael Jezz)
And when I ask for some form of substantiation, another poster offers one seasons statistics out of 30 as some form of proof.
WTF is that?
I'd say averaging out the statistics over a coaches career is far more demonstrational of a trend or of "MM football" than selecting individual seasons, or am I wrong?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

..wrong, cos a coach will alter their style to remain coaching at a high level.. ....mm has a long time, the way his side plays has changed.. ..yes h plays wide, but many do.. ..there is much more to it.. ..then you have teams which whilë rebuilding won't carry out the plan properly, so poor teams will skew any averaging.. ..and stats are nothing without watching how it all unfolds.. ..some coach might look like a short kicking team with much marking, but arë they just chipping sideway and backwards for example.?..

..in regards to how gc played, I didn't watch.. ..I do firmly believe that we are not playin the way our coaches would like.. ..we play a lot of man on man, trying to instill accountability I think, where has our high pressure press gone?, unfit and too lazy (body and mind) to carry out..

..its very difficult to determine a style when we play so bad.. ..but the idea we play slow stodgy football doesn't match up with the stat of us being number on for playing on.. ..so you always need to balance cold stats with vision..

..either way, we still play far too loose and open.. ..and without supreme effort, we won't ever carry out a mm game plan, or any of top four team gameplans..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

The cattle is only capable of doing it one week... and not the next
unless you show how this group of players have not only the physical preparedness , the skill set and the mental aptitude to be considered good enough
You see.. you need all things when drafting..
our players only do some of the things...

for instance kane can run but hes soft mentally and physically and doesnt have a skill base
bootsma has speed and a penetrating kick but nothinge else
watson has a good kick but cant run and isnt agile.. cant spoil cant use his body
cripps no tank and no speed
others are good eith the ball in their hands but not defensively
others again are gritty litle muddas but dont have the skills

our recruiting is terrible

i have gone over our hbfer issue.. over the years we have drafted zillions of them.... but after all these years were relying on simmo and scotto both long in the tooth...
and had to draft others from the midfield and play them at hb

what the hell is that???

someone needs to be accountable for that kind of rubbish!!!!

after over 20 other hbfers since we drafted simmo and recruited scotto.. were still relying on them.....

you have to be bloody joking!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Mr S

Most of the top 80 draft, picks each year aren't HBFlankers.

In fact there arent many specialist players that play there in their junior years and end up being drafted.

These are the cream of the crop all around Australia. Almost all of them grew u,playing on the ball, or as forwards. Some as quick wingman.

And its historical too. SOS, Southby, Doull were all forwards growing up.

Kourkoumelis and Peter Dean were ruckmen....

If you played all your time as a junior on the half back flank, you will most likely not even be listed in the draft.

The cattle don't do the basics week in week out because of our poor leadership on the field.

It's like Voss says, the skipper must demand it from everyone.

At the blues nobody says boo to anyone...let alone the truth...

They have to lose the first 4 games before the entire club is hammered, just so they can get their tackle count and contested ball up to a minimum acceptable level.

It's not the cattle that places them near the bottom of the ladder.....

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

How many of our hbfer types we have drafted since Simmo and recruited Scotland are still on our list?
Simmo and Scotland are still playing but whatabout all the others.
There are over 20 players playing this type of role that have been drafted.. thats 20 guys that could have been playing another role some would have made it some wouldnt have made it.
The problems with hbfer types is you only need a small handfull... but the other problem is blokes from other positions can also do that role.
Scotland and Simmo can both play midfield wing
As can Gibbs
as can Yarran.. and i bet Buckley can move forward to fp too
Walker another example...
These other guys we picked up.. were not good enough as one bit role players because they were not versatile and because the game had changed.....

All the guys we play across hbf and back pocket did not come as hbfers first and foremost... they were converted... (except Tuohy who is learning AFL).
Those that did come as hbfer types didnt make it....

That says everything as far as im concerned about how ludicruous our recruiting strategy was.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well said synbad our recruiting is terrible it has sent our club backwards.This year we should start playing the kids in preparation for 2015 dont even think of the 8.

And isn't that the frustrating part.
You and others keep telling me there is "much more" to Malthouses game plan but when I ask for details, you continually come up with nothing.
Until I'm offered something other than "the vibe", it's the actual statistical data that tells the tale.
Tell me what there is to it! Give me something!

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Spiro Kourkoumelis


I haven't heard that name since I was a wee lad.

And these kids you speak of are?

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill