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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Braithy wrote:
Any idea how much money Gibbs, Judd & Garlett free up? Then the following year, Carrots, Kreuzer, Jamison, Watson etc ...

Within two years we can turn this ship around as far as the roster goes.


Well - let's presume Gibbs and Judd are on $600,000 each and Garlett is on $250k. $1.45million could go a long, long way.


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Buckley
Menzel
Henderson
Docerty
Cripps

And people hoping that Gibbs will move on so we get a FA compensation pick will be disappointed.
He will sign before mid year for 4 years.


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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DocSherrin wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Any idea how much money Gibbs, Judd & Garlett free up? Then the following year, Carrots, Kreuzer, Jamison, Watson etc ...

Within two years we can turn this ship around as far as the roster goes.


Well - let's presume Gibbs and Judd are on $600,000 each and Garlett is on $250k. $1.45million could go a long, long way.



If old Logicaljuice can sort out our boardroom & off-field stuff and give us the direction we need, we might be alright, really quickly.

You think Mick is the right guy to take us forward and rebuild?


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:21 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
DocSherrin wrote:
I have a slightly different take on it...unfortunately this isn't fantasy world - this is contact reality - and while I think a player such as Carrazzo is dead wood and is done as a footballer at this level - he has another year remaining on a contract that we simply can't afford to pay out.

Andrew Walker
Troy Menzel
Marc Murphy
Kade Simpson
Dylan Buckley
Matthew Kreuzer
Matthew Watson
Robert Warnock
Chris Yarran
Sam Docherty
Patrick Cripps
Cameron Giles
Nick Holman
Lachlan Henderson
Tom Bell
Jarrad Waite
Nicholas Graham
Edward Curnow
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Zach Tuohy
Andrew Carrazzo .


That's about right for next year. I'd add White. The only changes for me if we can trade a couple of them for picks. Watson for a third rounder? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: seaside
Hmmmm..........

so this isn't a thread about testicles.........?


kindest regards tommi






pheww that was close.......i had the phone out ready for a picture.........!



carry on.........!

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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Ah what the hell. Post them up anyway tommi. We're all friends.


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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No knob shot though...........

that's just too far.......!

lets keep it all Sunday night warm and fuzzy hey Braithee.......!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Agreed. The knob is not very Sunday night. The sack, however ...


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Warm and fuzzy brother.........

warrrrrm and fuzzy..........!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21426
Location: North of the border
They are all Gunnas
Everyone we have picked or had on the list is a Gunna
Gibbs gunna be good when in the middle
Waite always gunna be good
Levi gunna be goid when he learns to kick
Lucas gunna be good when he bulks up same applies to Bootsma
White gunna be goid when not injured
Watson gunna be good on third tall
Thomas gunna be good when we get games into him
Everyone on the list is a gunna
We have a whole stack of gunnas and no amunition
Find us foitballers that can play footy and no more project players or guys that are gunna be good
Because if they aint good now they are never gunna be good

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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:38 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 813
ThePsychologist wrote:
No one should be classed as untouchable. At the end of the year we should have everyone on the table. We need to be aggressive in our trading. We need good young talent and we need to dramatically turn the list over.

If we can complete a few good deals, get 4-5 picks inside Top 25 things and belief can turn around quickly.

This year's draft is the first uncompromised in years and apparently has some really good tall talent that will go in the top 10.

Let Gibbs go to Adelaide and get a Top 10 pick. That would give us TWO Top 10 picks and salary cap room.
Trade Yarran and we could get a Top 20 pick.
What's Kruezer worth? Jamison?
If a club comes to us with 2 top 20 picks for Henderson is it worth it?
Would a WCE trade a Top 30 pick for Garlett?

We are a long way off a Premiership list and we need to be smart and aggressive. Saying that players are "untouchable" is just more mediocrity and not taking our situation seriously.

As for the list. Docherty, Buckley, Cripps, Menzel are the future. Yarran, Levi aren't and will not be part of our next Premiership team. That needs to be the focus.


yarran , henderson and levi are still at the age where they can part of future success and all must be kept


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 813
Sydney Blue wrote:
They are all Gunnas
Everyone we have picked or had on the list is a Gunna
Gibbs gunna be good when in the middle
Waite always gunna be good
Levi gunna be goid when he learns to kick
Lucas gunna be good when he bulks up same applies to Bootsma
White gunna be goid when not injured
Watson gunna be good on third tall
Thomas gunna be good when we get games into him
Everyone on the list is a gunna
We have a whole stack of gunnas and no amunition
Find us foitballers that can play footy and no more project players or guys that are gunna be good
Because if they aint good now they are never gunna be good



so buckey is good now , i think he gunna be a gun. so do we get rid of him now cos he a gunna?


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Levi is the one someone may pay over the odds for.
Great mark but I doubt his disposal will ever make him a footballer


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 813
loewe, richo, they didnt kick well, they were handy players

levi wil never kick like locket, dunstall or mckenna but he sure knows how to take a contested mark which makes him a lot more valuable than krooooozer at this stage


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Braithy wrote:
If old Logicaljuice can sort out our boardroom & off-field stuff and give us the direction we need, we might be alright, really quickly.

You think Mick is the right guy to take us forward and rebuild?


Logicaljuice should already have an understanding that the 'list management committee' isn't the best way forward. Getting a decent CEO in would be an early feather in his cap and will assist Mark immensely.

Is Mick the right guy? I'm not 100% convinced, but he is the guy and will be the guy for the foreseeable future. I don't see him going anywhere else. Will get another 3 years and I think as long as there's a plan in place to rebuild and get some proper processes in place then it's a deserved 3 year extension. Tough gig.


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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There is a point to be made that "back in the old days" when we could travel interstate and purchase the cream of the crop, a good percentage of those footballers were ready to go players. I remember when we recruited Peter Bosustow and was thinking who? But I had little doubt if we have picked him, he must be good, and good he was. Ready made player slotted in beautifully.

Picking up players who are ready to go from the draft is an art form / bloody science these days. If they are worth a pinch, GWS or GCS will know about it, as will half the bloody country, and they'll get first crack at them too. Speaking of first cracks, that too doesn't guarantee anything other than your shaving your odds at picking up someone serviceable at the least, and a dead set champion if your lucky, barring injury and form. Bryce Gibbs is a classic example of a #1 who hasn't lived up to expectations. And many a player well under his "draft price" who have been more serviceable for their respective clubs.

I don't think its as easy as this one goes, and this one stays. This one is untouchable and this one isn't.

Kind of heading off in a slightly different direction for a bit, imagine for a minute there were no interstate clubs. Just 12 Victorian teams in the comp with good old Fitzroy and South Melbourne. Imagine taking the cream of Westcoast, Freo, Port, the Crows, GWS, GCS, Brisbane and Sydney. Take all that cream and spread it out amongst the 12 Victorian clubs. For starters the sheer scope of class throughout the entire league would be mouth watering. But the cream aside, take one good player (not the cream, but good) from each of the interstate clubs, and slot them into our current list. :thumbsup:
That's eight GOOD players, not champions (don't have to factor in that) just good serviceable players, eight of them into our current list. I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

These days, with so many teams in the league and the "talent" so spread out, and so complex to secure, simply saying that guy should go, and that guy is untouchable is so far removed from reality it ain't funny. It really comes down to taking a massive gamble on any player, and securing a prized recruit is no guarantee either. Its such an unknown factor in today's game. Clubs that recognized this earlier than others and went about the science of recruitment are reaping the rewards. Carlton have been extremely slow on the uptake and are suffering the consequences. But even still, there are no guarantees, just shaving the odds if the science is correct and a bit of luck mixed in too.

Shuffling a deck of cards until you get SO many factors right, its amazing it even happens at all. But it does, and it should be Carlton's number one priority. Not to mention its the priority of every other club in the nation. So from the get go, its on, every man and his dog scouring the nation for talent. So many factors involved with no guarantees anyway, pick a needle from a hay stack.

The moving on and moving up of our list should be handled with such care and precision that whoever is on our list, its never going to be as simple as saying he is untouchable. How many of our already listed untouchables would be GOOOORRRRRRNNNN!!! if we could take our pick from interstate clubs? Not their #1 champions, just their good players. How many of our untouchables would become very touchable in that scenario ...

Disney Land aside, the reality is a nightmare at the best of times. I would HATE to be a club president, CEO or in any position where this one factor influences so much of a clubs fortunes. What a complete and utter nightmare. Good players don't grow on trees, and if they did, the garden doesn't produce enough quality produce to meet the demand. Plain and simple. Competition for the few morsels of quality produce is hampered even further by the "Office of Agriculture" who's appetite for profit keeps opening new markets for the produce to be sold. AND of coarse those new markets will be propped up and given every opportunity to flourish at the expense of existing markets.

In that environment throwing good food away is insane, hell even throwing half rotten anything away is insane. There simply isn't enough to go around, and you want to throw what we have away? In this environment getting anything with a glimmer of goodness is worth persisting with, especially when you factor in whats on offer, and what it cost you to begin with. The balance, the art, the science of recruitment, to me at least is a nightmare I wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole. If good players grew on trees and the garden was full of quality produce, yeah, easy pickings. But in this environment? All I hope is Carlton have the BEST people at hand to do this monumental task. And if we don't, they need to make it the clubs number one mission. I think its the most important factor in today's game.

Untouchables? Tread very carefully ...


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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What I think will happen

Retain:
Walker
Menzel
Murphy
Simpson
Buckley
Kreuzer
Watson
Warnock
Robinson (trade for pretty much anything if possible)
Yarran (3rd rounder or higher)
Docherty
Cripps
Rowe (jury still out but think he'll get another year whilst Mick is still there)
Giles
Holman
Bootsma
Henderson
Armfield (how the @#$%&! is he contracted till 2015???)
Bell
Waite
Graham
Everitt
Curnow
Thomas
Jamison
Casboult
Tuohy
White
Carrazzo
Ellard


Out:
Judd (retire)
Gibbs (FA)
Lucas (delist)
McLean (delist)
Temay (delist)
McInnes (delist)
Garlett (trade)
Scotland (retire)
Cachia (delist)

7 picks - I anticipate it being 6, 7, 25, 43, 61. 2 used on whatever Collingwood retread is available.

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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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Walker
Buckley
Menzel
Henderson

Then Yarran on talent (and his lifting of his workrate under MM)

Basically its a combination of both talent and workrate.


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:46 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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SnickerS wrote:
Buckley
Menzel
Henderson
Docerty
Cripps

And people hoping that Gibbs will move on so we get a FA compensation pick will be disappointed.
He will sign before mid year for 4 years.


Funny you singled these out Snick Man

As well as being talented, all appear to have a bit of voice (not seen enough of the Doc yet). God forbid, maybe they are our only truly talented, extroverted players


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 Post subject: Re: My untouchables
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:47 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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and we only have 5 out of 40 plus

god help us


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