To those saying play the kids... I completely get the sentiment, but where are they?

Grrrofunger summed up the way many of us were thinking when Collingwood traded Heath Shaw. He said something like "Collingwood are good at this". It's very true. They trade stars on the cusp of a downhill slide for great draft picks and salary cap relief. In contrast, we trade in these has beens (Thomas) or we cling on to our cuspers for big money and long term contracts (Waite, Carrazzo, Judd).

The result is that when it comes to kids you see Collingwood's key position backmen on the park. They're learning the trade and contributing. In contrast we have Watson, too small and too slow to ever be an afl player kicking around in the reserves six months into his two year contract, and Giles trying to learn the caper.

Same goes for midfielders... Play youth eh?

Well let's bring in our quick young midfielders
Let's bring in our young midfielders who spread both defensively and offensively
Let's bring in our young forwards who can both kick and mark
Let's bring in our young full back who is more physically capable than Jamison
Let's bring in our young blokes with great disposal

The tragedy of this club is we don't have any of the above. Bring in the kids all you want, but they're not going to give us any answers. And for that our club deserves every condemnation.

exactly true

we have nothing

and if we did theyre not learning from people who understand what it takes

that was another horrible game

the modern game has come so far again from last year... like a snake... it keeps shedding its skin each year and moving forward

if youre not recruting into whats required going forward... all these players will slip to you for a reason

but youre never going to get there

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Robinson, mclean and Scotland can't play in the same side. They collectively get run off too often and it opens us up.

Walker can't play in the backline. He can't out run the pressure any more and he can't deal with it when it comes.

Menzel needs to play.

Two steps forward and two back with Gibbs. I think when/if Judd/carrots/curnow are back Gibbs probably needs to go back to hbf.

gibbs is not playing like he cares
we rely on scotland and simmo to move the ball out of defence simmo is about to turn 30 too... scotland cant do it anymore.
midfield slow
lucas i was happy with him last 2 weeks but that was one of his worst in a parade of bad games
happy with rowe.. hes not afl standard but thats ok.. he has heart
buckley very good but needs to settle
zac gone backwards
mclean slower than usual
walker has no confidence in those around him
jamo an honest trier but howls his kicks out of defence
white was ok.. the midfield is shot
robbo tried
hendo didnt get into it
garlett lost without eddie... (always knew that would happen)
casboult cant run out a game.. cant kick and is hopeless defensively
nothing in the reserves coming through and if there is . its so minimal it wont make a difference

for the first time in our glorious history were abut to fall upon hard times... lean pickings coming up

cant rely on a duigan masterstroke every week

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oh and i forgot to add this is collingwoods third rebuild and tilt at a flag
were spluttering with nothing much under the bonnet for years

can u believe it???

its the draft picks that killed us...

lol

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Gotta play the kids. Gotta bottom out. It's the only way. And give the lesser-likes such as Watson and Bootsma the opportunity to give us some currency. None exists if they play a season of VFL.

nobody will give us anything for watson
and nobody gave us anything for bootsma last year

carlton is cashless currencyless country

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Our list is absolutely shot with nothing at all coming through by way of young kids.
People are saying Rodgers last 2 drafts have been good but apart from Menzel im very doubtful.

Good morning all. Got anything fun planned for the weekend?

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the tall kid might be good if he has his head screwed on straight

but holman graham cripps temay
temay has the running capacity but his bag of tricks is vanilla.. i think we took him as a small tagger
the others are plodders
they all have something
cripps can dish it out
graham can take a mark and kick a goal
holman can tackle

but they dont have the full package to play the modern game at a high level

first thing we need to do is work out what we want from our players

lookinga t one thing and doing the project on everything else is ridiculous

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agree with much that has been said about our reserves, but disagree strongly about Cripps. he will be a good player for us.

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very good.. or just so so?

whats there about him being very good?

personally i look at the way the game is being played and what he is

hes no ollie wines
he isnt even a dustin martyn.. who i reckon has massive limitations.

same age a kid like dunstan is killing them...

this kid is a plodder.. second rounder at best,,,, probably third from what i see he has going for him

yes i see Greg williams there no worries...

when i hear rodgers say that.. i wanna march him out of the club... quick smart

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We have three tiers in our playing group.

Henderson
Menzel
Docherty
Buckley
Murphy
Warnock (based on his last 3 weeks)
Yarran
Crisps
Curnow

----------------------------------

Simspon
Walker
Casboult
Rowe
White
Tuohy
Jamison
Daisy
Armfield
Everitt
Garlett

-----------------------------

Lucas -- peahearted, not a team player
Robbo -- peabrained, reached his ceiling and now his G&D efforts slipping
McLean -- Not quick enough, bad disposal
Waite -- Injury prone
Carrazzo -- Slowed right down, injury prone
Scotland -- retiring
Judd -- see carrots
Gibbs -- should not be re-signed
Bootsma, Watson, McInness, Ellard just no where near AFL standard.

------------------------------

The top tier should be persisted with and bought along and given the keys to the car. They are the future, and in saying that there's only a few A-graders among them.

The second tier, are blemished, ageing or limited. Take Casboult for example. He can be serviceable if we get our structures right. He takes a good good grab, so he needs runners working off him all over the ground to take his easy handballs after he wins contested ball.


The bottom tier, no ifs or buts about it. They need to put out to pasture. They won't be part of our next finals team, let alone our next premiership side.

The rest, or bottom tier are our passengers.

I saw Lucas last night at a stoppage, rather than take the contact and draw a collingwood player or possibly two into him, then handball out to wide open murphy for the outlet, he simply handballed the ball to the feet of a pies player, they picked it up 70 metres from goal, two handpasses and a short stroll later (i think it was Blair) was lining up for a set shot, and goaled. Typical of his courage.

Gibbs is playing bruise free and saving himself for his next club. He has to be. If not, he's not worth 250k a year in his current condition, let alone 550k plus.

Judd admits his hard work and miles early in his career are taking their toll. Let the walking human salary cap retire or play for richmond next year. Carrots, same.

Waite misses too many games every season, and takes it upon himself when he decides to show up and play. He's gone too.

Our game plan for 3 quarters last night was calamitous. All the flooding, not one single player forward is setting ourselves up for failure. How many times did we win the ball last night, our players instinctively played on only to look up and find nothing in front of them, then we hand it straight back to them and get hit on the scoreboard the other way?

Why did we have no forward structure until the last qtr?

We don't have a balanced midfield. We're one speed. We don't have a KPP to take a game on. Henderson has been lost at sea as a forward spearhead, because he's a better defender than a Full Forward/ CHF.

We are woefully inept all over the park, but our troubles are born of a terrible, self-serving board and president, a coaching staff past it's used by date and players not willing to buy into any of it.

Savage and aggressive change must be undertaken right through all departments, or we are, if we're not already St Kilda circa 1980's ...

the last quarter is like dining out at a fancy restaurant which ends up overrated and youre underfed... and then u end up at mcdonalds drive in on the way home...

dont worry about it.. you already spent your money and it was crap and underwhelming

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Among other things; I'm pretty freaking concerned we just paid 700k to a guy who cannot kick a ball 40 metres. I swear if I wasn't 37, I would be more value. I'm fitter and kick at least 40, maybe squeeze out 45+ on the run.

If it's one thing I've taken out of the replay is that re-enforces my belief that the only way to beat taggers on a consistent basis is to have a running pattern throughout the game that is not only above average in its intensity, but also unpredictable in where and when you're going to run.

Look at Ablett's each week, 30 touches will be broken down into 10 each in the guts, the backline and bobbing up in the forward 50 more often than not. Pendlebury and Selwood starting to do the same.

Then look at the usual suspects who are constantly tagged out of it - they dont gut run hard enough to help out in the defensive 50, guys like Rich, Gaff, Pearce, they back themselves in to slot it from outside 50, and whilst its a valuable weapon, it's also their undoing, because they won't feel the need to run deep into the forward 50. Which gives you about a third of the ground to worry about losing your opponent in, rather than constantly looking around for Ablett at the stoppages to see if he's drifted forward or not.

Without having seen it yet, I'd be pretty sure Murphy spent about 1/3 as much time in Collingwood's attacking 50 that Macaffer did, and only reactively once he started hurting him on the rebound a couple of times. Rest of the game either at the centre bounces, or resting high up on the half forward flank. No unpredictability, and really, once Waite was officially a late out, you'd be prepared to let him rest up there, because the forward line structure is so impotent once we lose the luxury to play with three key forwards.

I'd be playing Murphy off half back for the rest of the year as Hawthorn have done with Mitchell. Not just because it teaches him some long overdue respect for the defensive aspect of his game, not just because the lack of a successful contingency plan for this position post Simpson/Scotland is alarming, but because it mixes it up for him and makes it difficult to predict where he's going.

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nice post Rhino
you are a thinker...

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Went last night and braved the cold. It was embarrassing and all over by about 20 minutes into the first qtr and Collingwood knew it. Watching players jog around, trail opponents, not supporting teammates with shepherds, voice etc is pathetic.

What was even worse was I don't believe Collingwood played anywhere near their best. Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom never got out of second gear. Names such as Langdon, Dwyer, Williams, Witt, Grundy carved us up.

We are so far off the top 5-6 teams it's not funny. The real problem is what have we got to look forward to? What is coming through? Menzel, Cripps, Docherty maybe Graham then what? Not a lot more. It is a major issue.

Also, the lack of support of Murphy last night was disgusting. Not once did someone try and assist him and everytime he got the ball he had nowhere to go.

I still can't understand the recruitment of Thomas. Makes no sense on so many levels. Last night his head was still in a Collingwood jumper. Mentally he may never leave.

The rest of the year needs to be about playing the kids, getting games into them and clearing the decks.

The future needs to be built around Henderson, Murphy, Cripps, Docherty, Menzel & Buckley. The rest are up for grabs.

I would trade (or FA) Gibbs, Yarran, Kruezer, Jamison, Walker whilst they still have some value as they will not be a part of the next Premiership and that needs to be our goal. We need talent.

Look at the lists of Collingwood, St Kilda and even Brisbane. The young talent coming through is impressive. They have made the hard decisions when needed. We haven't.

I am confident MM is bringing the right structures and culture to our football dept (that's why we are falling apart, players are getting found out) but we talent, leaders and pure footballers.

Today two very talented kids in Hartung & Acres debut for their new clubs (I wanted Acres at 13). We could of easily had one of them if we hadn't of got Thomas.

Change is needed and needed now, if done it can turn around quickly.

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eh?

is acres a slow inside mid but without the tools to do that properly going forward?
if not we wouldnt have gone for him...

we only take the types everybody else overlooks because they dont fit the right profile for AFL footy

im happy with daisy he will come good
i have no doubt that we would have chosen a dud .. not a doubt in my mind ...

just look at the types we bring through our door!!!

slow.. unskilled..undisciplined.. weak bodies.. soft .. but come from good families...!!!

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