Cretylus are you saying a captain is somebody who trains half the pre season away from the club till he got the contract he wanted?
Or that Ratten and McKay were great captains.. or Kouta??

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

After we lost to Melbourne, I would have liked to see the captain sitting next to Mick in the post game press conference. Mick should not father these babies.

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!

Bit strange that Murph tells the team after the loss "a lot of things will be said this week, but we need to stick together"

Today Simmo says the team "has a few passsengers".

This is going well.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

..come on, soon it will be simmo for pm.. ..he works hard on field yes, but little off field.. ..has been here almost the longest, crap leadership at club for a decade.. ..what real leadership has he given?, beyond running hard and giving a bit of direction.. ..or is that all it takes to be captain..?..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

It looks like all we have.

Judd was x100000 times the captain Murph is because when things get tough on the field Juddy has come through repeatedly.

when was the last time judd did those things?
and when was judd doing the team things?
its ok being supremely talented 3 seasons ago... and doing supreme stuff.. but thats not leadership

hes been mediocre for seasons.. he hasnt been leading officially or unofficially in those 3 seasons.

sacrificial team first acts ...

where are they????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No, but they were the only ones left from the previous successful era...

Still better leaders than anything we have now - including Murphy and Judd who are on a par with players like Rice and Hogg in 1995 premiership team...

At any club the culture is continued by the leaders on and off the field

In fact its their job to improve it if they can...

People shouldn't criticise Murphy's captaincy too much

I am sure he is doing the best he can - he isn't a natural leader, and he learnt from the best didn't he Mr S?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

pesta bre levendi

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

they might have looked like better leaders
but in fact they proved they wernt and its about environment

last week murphy went out on a limb and said sorry
this week its simmo... we all love simmo... and simmos commitment cant be questioned.
built smaller than murphy but has heart and shows it

so simmo draws the short straw this week
cant send murph the captain out again.. he already said sorry last week... its too embarassing 2 weeks in a row... people might doubt his word

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

When there's little on offer you take what you can.

What I know about Simpson is that he's the one player at the club that puts his physical health on the line every time he goes near the ball.

He also generally speaks well and isn't backward in offering advice to his teammates onfield.

We have to start somewhere and in the absence of the second coming of John Nicholls that's not a bad place to start.

Murphy looks like he's been hearing footsteps ever since his jaw was busted and he's a total wipeout when it comes to having to speak.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Kouta was a great player, but no leader - just scammed the club for as much as he could get.

Bradley was a great player, but no leader - trained on his own till he got what he wanted.

Ratts - great inspirational player, but can't imagine him as a leader; we never heard from him in public.

Campo - phht!

Lappin - set good examples off field......

Lance - surely you jest.

Allen - phht!

Wanna see good leaders? They're good leaders ON and OFF field. They're not necessarily champion players, but they represent the club and you get what the club stands for the second they open their mouths. See Nick Maxwell, Tom Harley, Joel Selwood, Cameron Ling, Luke Hodge, Jared McVeigh.

None of our above named players hold a candle to any of these when it comes to leadership. And none of the present crop do either.

Oh for a Big John or a Mike Fitzpatrick, easily our two best captains of the past 50 years.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

some things need to be said.. or what happens is people will look fondly back on the good old soviet union days.....

funny how people have selected memories

juddy is a great leader??? pfffft

great player while he played great footy....

but u never once saw him come off his line to block murphys man in a scrag
so nobody does that

what u did see though is when someone scragged him he went apeshit... eyegouged.. and then copped two... made the club appeal to clear his name.. and cost the club more weeks
of course the club was so lacking leadership they appealed for him.. knowing he had no chance...and the penalty would be more severe.....

thats leadership in a nutshell in there

on field.. off field...

just straight up strong club leadership stuff...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

There is definitely issues within the playing group after some of the comments made by some players. I don't think it's Mick and the players but more the players and the players.

I reckon walker would be a good leader for us. A role he could grow into.

..it's plainly obvious, group divided in two.. ....those that are willing to roll up their sleeves, and those that will sulk until a new coach is appointed, one that will nurse them, until that coach gets tired and then sulk for new coach..

..too many fakers in Carlton..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..we have a few that play with real courage, simmo is one.. ..so yes, a very courageous player, but a not so courageous leader.. ..not sure we have any of those unfortunately..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

he bludged responsibility only a couple of weeks ago and got suspended - that's not leadership

Waite's another who's bludged responsibilty

He has done more to inspire in 2012-13 than Murph has.

But yes he isn't a great leader per se like a Hodge or Selwood, being relatively introverted, but in terms of being a warrior who inspired others to follow him by his deeds, he is pretty damn good.

In an ideal world though he wouldn't be a captain of a club though. He wouldn't of been in our top 10 leaders in the mid 90s. SOS was more a leader and he was never captain material.

Love Simmo, has busted his guts the last few weeks .....but this



tells you it's all about rhetoric....

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

...agree with most of that moshe (25)

the point I wanted to raise was that those B level leaders were still better than anything we have now...and that includes Judd who is on a par with a Dean Rice or a Earl Spaulding on the 95 group...

(bit hard on Kouta I think, he would have given more to the club on and off the field than his all contracts were worth. I spoke to a Board member (you know him as an ex player) a long time ago when Kouta was at his peak, and he told me that he has never seen such a huge fan response to any player at Carlton in his time - and he played in the 70 premiership)

I have been harping on about leadership continuity since SOS and bradley left and Pagan arrived. You could see the writing on the wall, there were just a few seeds of leadership left to use for the next crop of leaders. Pagan severed the seedlings (I have my theories as to why this happened) and then Ratten and the club couldnt or wouldnt do anything about this critical area of the club and team.

A strong player leadership group can patch over other weakneses at the club - sometimes even snatch a flag.

This area is one Parkins 8 critical areas which he outlined to me and some other Carlton tragics one night at training.

The senior coaching role was not on the list. You can actually not wuite get the coach right, and still succeed.

The 2 critical areas he listed at the top were "recruitment" and then "development"

The skipper was the most important person at the club

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)