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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I think recruiting is THE area where you get THE best....we are in the football business where talent on the field is what masters, generally speaking if it's going good on the field everything else looks after itself.

Then you have a board that doesn't sit back on its laurels and demands continuous improvement from ALL facets if the org.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Look at how many games these guys played in recent years:

Bret Thornton - 188
Jordan Russell - 116
Simon Wiggins - 116
Brad Fisher - 99
Aaron Joseph - 73
Paul Bower - 70
Ian Prendergast - 65
Shaun Hampson - 63
Jordan Bannister - 50

All players with clear deficiencies, all kept playing seniors whilst those behind them on the list weren't exposed to senior football. It took Collingwood one season (and probably 6 games) to work out Jordan Russell wasn't good enough, it took us 8 years!

Remember when we couldn't find a third player on the list to delist so Setanta had to go??? The same player who had worked his way into our starting finals team in 2011.

Our list management has been horrible ... not recognising the true state of our list until now is laughable.

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In WADA we trust

been saying it for years. up close we look more like cricketers than afl footballers. stand next to the geelong blokes and they look like giants

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

There is no work ethic at the club from the top to the very bottom.

I think their are more sinister reasons afoot in the AFL for that, there is a clear divide currently in the AFL, of teams that DO and teams that DON'T.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Well said braithy our players physique over the years has never changed,always come back looking the same shape.I thought having the best .latest equipment would help it didnt.

Worries me a bit in hindsight, having spoken to the players at the start of the year, talking about how they didn't like Cordy's unflexible approach to individual player programs, in contrast to Butters' focus on player empowerment and taking the responsibility to ensure they're right.

Not sure if we have the players with the mentality and approach for that sort of leeway sadly.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Friend of mine used to know the club's pyschologist and he said 'this mob just don't get it!'
This is going back 5 or so years ago so might be a diffrent issue

..some do 'get it'.. ..maybe not enough, but a bit of player empowerment also comes with player accountability, show us which ones do 'get it', and re-evaluate the rest....

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

So just looking at our "second tier" midfielders,

out of Bell, Curnow, Ellard, Cachia, McClean, Armfield, Robinson, Carazzo - who would you seek to deslist/trade this year (assuming hypothetically that we can move on as many of them as we want) and why?

I am using this contract status page as a reference: http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25766
Assuming that Ellard is on a short term deal.

Bell - Monitor for rest of year, probably keep (exercise option for 2015?), otherwise make a big effort to trade as he will have currency despire his deficiencies.
Curnow - Keep. Good run-with player despite his disposal issues, insurance for Carrazzo (too injury prone these days). Unless they have earmarked another young player with better disposal as a potential run-with player ...
Ellard - I think he gets the year to prove himself (assuming he has one year deal). Seems to be in favour with MC. I think he is borderline depending on how deep we want to cut the list.
Cachia - I'd lean towards delisting. Great try-er, but can't see that he adds much.
McClean - Monitor for rest of year, see if he can regain his best form, if not seek to trade for his experience (GWS? Gold Coast? St Kilda?), otherwise delist.
Armfield - No idea where he fits at the moment. HF? HB? Mid? I like his effort, but maybe if we are seriously rebuilding then we need to negotiate a trade for him. Bit of a worry if he really is contracted to 2016 - seems overs for a guy who isn't on the MC's radar anymore.
Robinson - Trade. I know Robbo gets a bad rap on TC, but there should be buyers out there for him.
Carazzo - Keep. We need all the leadership and toughness we can get at the moment.

Ellard - Delist
Cachia - Delist
McClean - Delist
Carazzo - Delist (I have Curnow and Bell ahead of Carazzo as similar type players)
Bell - Keep 2 year contract. I think he is learning and improving and probably the only player from this list that would get a game in another side.
Armfield - 1 year contract
Curnow - 1 year contract
Robinson - 1 year contract

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!

Robbo is not a bright footballer but he is fearless and resilient.

He can cop a knock that would stretcher off most players but he bounces back up.

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!

Carrots contracted for next year so wont be delisted.
My changes;
Judd-retire
Gibbs-FA
Buckley-one year contract
Lucas-trade
Robbo-2 year contract
Yarran-i think will ask to be traded, if not 2 year contract
McLean-delist
Rowe-delist
Scotland-retire
Waite-one year contract
Duigan-retire
Cachia-delist
Garlett-may want to be traded.
White-delist
Ellard-delist

There are a few out of contract and some rookies but this is 10 players, about the number Swann said would be turned over.

You'd give Robbo a 2 year contract?

We and everyone else didn't pick Jimmy Tsitas in last year's draft.

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Essendon-Only team to have ever been found guilty of salary cap breaches in a premiership year!

I think it took Collingwood 9 years to work out Russell wasnt good enough considering we had him on display for the 8 before it.

Even better, Robbo gets 2 and Buckley only 1?

Okay, point taken. Robbo has his flaws but at least he has a crack.