Don't think Roos would accept a reduction in quality of the melbourne leadership group

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Don't reduce the visy contribution to 900k in 2013
3 mil per year from 2007 to 2012 equals 19mil since 2007.
I would reckon dick must have parted with 10 between the late 1960s and 2007
Matheson must have put in 2 or 3 mil
Quite frankly that's a little more than sponsorship rights and tax deductibility
Shouldn't mean you run the place but deserves a thank you card rather than accusations of control.

It's made us lazy and complacent, without any vision and and an inability to grasp the way an AFL club should be run in the 21st Century.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

What does 50,000 memberships add up to?

What about the small sponsors?

Add them up, with gate receipts etc and see whether you can live without Pratts and Mathesons petty change or not. Their petty cash whilst appreciated and needed barely makes up 5% of our total annual revenue

The members should have final say on what happens to the club, not the oligarchs who view the club as a play thing for corporate entertainment and tax deductions.

And guess what the carlton constitution dictates who the club belongs to and who has ultimate power?

If the club goes into receivership each member will fork out $50.

So the unemployed, student or pensioner member, will fork out $50 each just like The Pratts and Mathesons will.

It's called corporate socialism. The oligarchs love socializing risks and costs while privatizing profits and power.

See recent 2008 global financial crisis


INCIDENTALLY, give me the break up Pratts so called 19 million tipped into carlton since 2007. What was it spent on?

the 300,000+ per year given to Judd is an arrangement between Judd and Visy. Nearly 1.5 million spent on that alone. Can't include that on Carlton's books.

So provide the break up Of the oligarchical contributions and their sources. Don't just fling figures in here willy nilly

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Excellent stuff Creylus.

BTW the money the Oligarchs give reminds me of a single mothers pension.
Never going to be enough to move into Toorak but enough to survive. However, it does take away motivation to succeed as its all just handed over for no work.
when you no longer need to work hard and roll up your sleeves and use your noggin.. youre the Carlton footy club and its reliance on the Oligarchs.

As Cretylus says the Pratts would love a name like Juddy in his heyday... on their books and connected to them.... just gives them some kind of bragging rights.
Juddy gets his 300k to talk to kids about recycling and Visy abit.. but he also has to attend Visy corporate nights and do speaks there also as an ambassador for Visy.....
Id call that a win - win..Visy- Juddy... but im not sure how it helps Carlton.....
Does it mean he would have been less likely to come over to us and make us his choice of club ?
The one mill per annum wasnt enough??

Yeah cant add that in your breakdown MJ...
The Visy Park cardboard box complex? Thats advertising and a tax deduction.
Yes Dick did give to the club.. and he has looked after past players.. but they looked after him also.

Thanks Pratts but we must look forward into the future without overly reliant on Oligarchs and hangers on....
Need to use initiatives and some hard work .. its more sustainable....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Cfc can live without the money now but couldn't in 2007. You don't resent that kind of contribution. You should say thanks and move on. I just read your posts and it is as if you think Pratt/Matheson are the cause of our onfield mediocrity. They never sat on that board as football experts. There was always an unwritten understanding that kernahan was responsible for the football side of things. His the president after all.

can i ask u who made sticks president???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Koshie also doesn't sit on the board as president professing to be a football guru or influencing football decisions and selections.

But Koshie had a big influence on the change in overall culture at the club, did the right things such as set up a coach head hunting Panel that made sure Hinkley was the right coach for them long term.

Mr S makes a strong point concerning leadership starting from the top, culture starting from the top, and permeating throughout the club.

So it stands to reason that the opposite is also true. That a bad culture can be seeded from the president down. Look at the the tigers self destruct from 82 onwards. A graveyard yard for coaches for almost 30 years. Ex players not returning to the club, and not just KB.

You over value the contribution of 900k from Visy (tax deductible too) and fail to mention the 15 odd million per season just from ordinary memberships. Then you add all sorts of coterie groups, player sponsors, small to medium business sponsors, corporate box sponsors etc, and you get another 10 million plus. Then there are gate receipts etc....

But we must bow and worship the tax dodge of 900k Visy tipped in last year (900k which is returned to them many times over, and for a family which is worth in excess of 5 billion).

Let's get some perspective here Michael a reality check would be in order don't you think?

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

No wonder we're in the shit.

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

unwritten understanding? Do you have a source for that claim?

I suppose you also thought Elliott pulled all the football strings at Carlton? (even heard of Wes Lofts in the background?)

Wasnt Pratt president for a while? What was the unwritten understanding during his tenure?

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Absolutely nailed it!

Just a couple of things on Sticks..
Who made him PResident ..

and was he as the leader of the footy dept the man who decided Ratten had to go.. or was that somebody else higher up???

Not saying thats a good or bad decision.. though everybody knows my thoughts... but that does prove Sticks isnt ultimately in charge of the club.

Its no secret the Mathiesons and the Pratts wanted him gone to be replaced by either Roos (Preferred by the Pratts and chased but rejected us) or MM.

Sticks had no say keeping Ratten longer..... (stuffed suit prez.. who is in way above his head as are the rest.
Sticks has alot of trust in Swann.. but the Mathiesons dont..
Swann will be gone .... hes not already because they couldnt get Mathiesons preferred CEO .. Cooke..

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Typical chequebook big name Carlton philosophy.

I am certain Alan Richardson would have been a better option than Malthouse. I am sure that Swann thought that too - but Carlton's obsession with getting the big name means we NEVER consider the no frills/no name option who may be better and costs half the $$$.

They were too frightened about a membership drop off/sponsor drop off/prime TV slot drop off had we gone down the no name path. Who gives a @#$%&! about all that if the coach you appoint is the best person for the job?

The demoralising part is that they keep making the same mistakes with these critical appointments.

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

The record for Swann is that he only looks at Collingwood people when recruiting personell to the club.

I am surprised he hasnt employed Phil Mannassa or Twiggy Dunne yet... maybe they arent interested???

I think we just need some home truths to be told from top to bottom... board, management and especially the playing group which concerns me the most....

With Malthouse we got off on the wrong foot from day 1 when Mick wasnt present at the official start of his first preseason (November 1st 2012) due to book launching commitments and touring....

I dont recall any other senior coach not being present at the start of preseason at any club in the history of the game. Certainly never happened at Carlton before.

A strong club board, president and CEO would have demanded ALL hands on deck on that front.

Instead we had yet ANOTHER wasted 2013 season, with a paltry 11 or so wins and a hand up to play one final due to the EFC* sanctions.

We had a green Brad Green put in charge of the midfield as assisant. And an equally green Robert Wiley put as director of coaching and development.

(dont get me wrong I am a fan of both people, but not in those roles - Barker shoudl have gone and Green maybe do his job. Cappuano replaced too)

And this year has started in the same, slow manner where we cant plat 4 quarters, poor 1%ers and average inconsistent work rate. Under the hammer already after 2 rounds.

But we will beat the Bombers this week - and for another 7 days, the real problems at the club will be plastered over and the players will feel content with their mediocre start to a season - AGAIN!

Frankly I dont blame Gibbs for asking for a blueprint from the club - he has been one of our most consistent players since we drafted him, and also played in negative roles etc, which isnt good for his development as an elite player.

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

the alternative was the sticks strategy
stick with rAtts

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

....or we could have genuinely set up a head hunting team to get the best possible coach that suits our list and multiple problems that plaugue our club...

I dont recall carlton ever doing that....

Always been, Lets get Matthews, Lets get Roos, Lets get Pagan, Lets get Malthouse... etc

Do you remember when John Kennedy was asked to come in and maybe taking over as senior coach at carlton some decades ago???

John Kennedy talked to the Carlton power brokers and said he would be interested only if you get rid of that bloke.

Guess who John Kennedy was pointing at???

(history says John Kennedy never coached cartlon)

_________________
Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Who made sticks president?
Dick asked him to take over when he had to step down. Who else was there?
Sticks has been able to stay on his own terms even when they wanted him to go last year
C'mon Sticks has had the most control of football issues until the wheels fell off in 2012
My point is other than a push to get rid of Ratten, which you agree with, the families have had little input into football.
I would say now they have to because the performance is not there.
Who has been responsible for day to day football management?

in all of the land of Carltondom... Sticks was the man that Pratt made prez?
When his mantra was "best avilable".. u mean to tell me he made Sticks Prez.. and now he wont leave???
If they had the power to make him prez they can get rid of him...

All you have to do is threaten to withdraw sponsorship... and make it known u will leave Sticks president but he doesnt get any money...

So in fact we see hes allowed to stay on....after they placed him there

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

A Carlton-Melbourne merger would create a paradigm shift.