actually the Essendon* board wwere weak..they allowed this to happen..as did the doctor.. the footy operations manager.. the president and the players and their captain

even our old captain would have gone along with it

its because there are no checks and balances in an incestious family were everybody in the house is screwing one another...

but the board and the president have the legal obligations of the club.. not the coach

if coaches run footy clubs .. were still in the seventies

yes i know we at carltn are... but thats the fault of the board...!!!

the problem with carlton supporters is theyre like the board

if u believe malthouse is responsible.. u believe in a white knight.. and that the rest of the club is going along ok.. but the white knight is ruining everything...

iss that what u believe..?
the club is a shining example.. but the coach is letting it down??
so the culture of the club is not just systematically rotten at club level.. its rotten at grass roots level also...
the belief is one man can turn a footy club around...????

i wanna hear this one...

says it all really.. basically tells us why were [REDACTED]!!!.. just there...

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yes trainor was put through the hoops.,... and was invited on.... harrison and moulton were indies too.. ultimately they became part of the haze

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The reality check according to the blueseum is that 5 of the 11 board members were on the board from 2007 or before. (Sticks, glee son, newton, frid, Clarke, lee). Trainor faced the members of his own bat and fahour even synbad supports on a competence basis. La guiidace I don't know. So 7 of the 8 remaining board positions not occupied by the families weren't appointed by them. Doesn't support the conspiracy theory that the families control everything. The issue with the constitution is a different argument.

jezz... its not about that.. its about who gets listened to on the board

may i ask u why mrs pratt and her son in law are on the board???

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Stunning looks and business acumen?????

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

So you don't understand the difference between a manager and a chief executive officer?

Ladies and gentlemen let's dissect and examine mr S's history on the problems at carlton.

During the pagan era, the problem was purely laid at the feet of the playing group. No blame directed towards the board, the head coach, the CEO, the president, the football manager etc.

During the Ratten era, the problem was purely laid at the feet of mr ratten. No issues with the quality of the playing list, the leadership group, the football manager, the board, the CEO etc...

Within 6 months, as mr Malthouse took over the reins, and went on his book launching tour instead of being present at the start of pre session, the playing list became the worst in the league, the board a corrupt bunch of oligarchical families, the president incompitent, the football manager another job for a sticks mate,

To be fair the coach needs to be given some time to structure a team to his playing philolosphy.

Although both players and coach don't need time to get two basics right

Work rate
1%ers

We all know that the club has to be strong in all areas to have a genuine crack at a flag.

All aspects of the club....

For me as a supporter, when I see low work rate and low 1%ers coupled with dishonesty in the playing group i place the responsibility at the feet of the players. And the senior coach will feel responsible for not being able to get his team motivated enough to get the basics right.

Its a bit like Essendon*, 100% player responsibility for what goes into their veins and stomachs.

Nobody hypnotized them, nobody blackmailed them, nobody spiked their drinks etc

And the WADA code agrees with this sentitment

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

On football issues kernahan. ( keeping swan, McKay, Hughes).
Families didn't support ratten. Neither did you or I
On finance, marketing Pratt, Matheson, fahour, Sayers. They largely delivered
In real simple speak, they have influence, not control.
The whole oligarchy thing as if they control everything that goes on at cfc is just not true.
Power vacuum is a better word to describe it.
Let them go gracefully. Don't resent the contribution which is a staggering sum of money between the 2 families

clubs with no standards away from the field... dont have them on the firld

Essendon* were doing ok.. off field.. till someone allowed hird to coach them...

just goes to sshow.. u live and die by the decisions made at board level.. and standards

not the coach

i think what ur saying is in todays age ..a single guy can come in and turn the club on its ear .. all by himself...

its very carlton........ yes it is....

but its proven false.

hirs didnt take over the club... he was allowed to influence it

weak board

same as any shit club in the end....

the top teams are strongly led away from footy

now if u think collingwood would win flags before eddie
or port only changed a coach...
or hawthorn didnt fix their off field... (remember dermie wanted ayers) and he was kicked off...

these clubs would be struggling too

so your theory is wrong...

coaches dont make a team.. clubs make a team

when the club is strong it makes wonderful decisions...

the rest is bullshaaaait¬!!

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I don't think the single person can change things. You need a focus point who can drive a team eg harris, McGuire. We haven't got that focus point. Like to me SOS driving the football department: recruiting and coaching, making the appointments according to modern recruiting with the game plan in mind makes sense. Not sure if he has the management skills. Leave money, marketing to fahour, Pratt Matheson as long as they keep their fingers out of football. Madden I am iffy on because he was so anti club but I am open to him as president. Always believed walls and mclure would be a voice of reason . I would need to know if we cleared the board we wouldn't risk financial stability because it's a precursor to getting the right people into the football department. You never want another 2006

....but you said ratten wrecked the club single handedly with the best playing list ever seen since Lionedas took a TEAM of Koutoufideses to the hot gates of fire in about 400 BC

But pagan and elshaugh Pty Ltd and now book launching Micky Malthouse were/are victims of an oligarchically controlled board and incompetent president.

The players will turn it around this week against Essendon* the dope lords from tullamarine, and the players will again breath easier and patch over their real issues for another 7 days....

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Last year visy put in $900k

Farouh put in zero from my reading of the annual report

Peanuts for a $ 50million revenue business

We have a $5.8million debt- which is a poor financial performance

When the Elliot board was booted out, the actual club debt was about 23 million, even though it was portrayed by the club at about half that debt level.

And when you say Visy puts in 900k each year, that isn't a donation. Ground sponsorship costs money and is tax deductible. Visy makes far more money from carlton than it spends or invests in the club.

A board needs to be very dynamic in nature with board directors having different skill sets and contacts. Overall this provides a very strong commercial and leadership pool.

Does the carlton board have this level of dynamism?

This is were i agree with Mr S, that the board has been stacked with oligarchical family types. What you end up with in this scenario is a Royal family type backwater, rather than a dynamic Apple computer type forward looking dynamic group.

I would be more concerned with the decisions and philosophy of the directors rather than whether one family provides 900k in sponsorship money, or make a couple of players happier with comfy Visy embassador roles.

Koshie at port Adelaide doesn't funnel huge amounts of personal funds into port power.
When he took over, the power were a basket case, on and off the field.

He asked Parkin to head a panel to select a coach, even though Hinkley was already there and well regarded. And if memory serves me correctly Ratten was close to getting that gig.

What if Fahour took over as president? Most of The oligarchs on the board should be in the background in my opinion, not on the board at all. They can be involved in other ways....Visy can still sponsor the ground.

Do they only love the club, if they are on the board as directors and Vice Presidents?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

I agree with the thrust of your argument
I also agree with synbads oligarchs argument
If what you are saying is true that visy are getting more financially out of carlton than putting in, then members have a duty to remove them at an egm.
There is nothing from what i see convinces me that Farouh is president material.

Carlton at present reminds me of the company I work for right now.

I currently work as the marketing coordinator of an engineering firm made up of a board of directors who's primary role is engineering, but they are each responsible for a different portfolio within the business also (finance, IT, HR etc). My boss is in charge of the marketing portfolio, so has final say on all marketing initiatives and advertising throughout the year. The problem though, is that while he has an understanding of the process and at least some creative flair, his primary role is still seeing projects through to completion.

My job is to develop and produce promotional materials, update news items on the website, organise staff attendance at events etc. The work is often there on-time, ready to go, and just needing approval. But because my boss is so involved in his primary role, approvals take forever if they happen at all, which means missed opportunities and always rushing at the end. There is no plan, just a series of vague outcomes that somehow what we do will achieve those outcomes.

When I look at how our football club operates, it reminds me of this firm with little plan and still learning how to promote itself in a proactive and innovative way.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

So we have established the club is crap

My major concern.. is not only dont that have a clue where the club will be in three years.. but they dont even think about where this club will be in ten.. twenty.. fifty years.

Its just kicking the can down the street

fifty years is a really long time.. but twenty isnt.. and then thats already almost half way to fifty.

This is not about an individuals lifetime.. the fact were having a one fiftieth this year should illustrate that fully.

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Who thought Koshie was presidential material?

He is clearly the number one president in the league at the moment. Honesty, positive and represents the Power in most credible way in public.

Look at what Visy gets from 900k pumped into carlton. A very good marketing opportunity for the company which is tax deductible mind you.,,,

Hyundai would put in at least that amount into carlton. it more than gets its money back in exposure and car sales etc

In 2004 Hyundai's total advertising and marketing budget in Australia was about 50 million dolalrs per year. Do you know what it is today?

these commercial entities, which includes Visy are after positive exposure and ultimately increased market share and profits. All are expenses so tax deductible...

I recall a former employer of mine, taking out a nation wide advertising campaign, just in the print media, over several weeks that cost quite a few million dollars.

Make no mistake, the benefits to Visy from being linked to the carlton football club have been HUGE over the years. And Visy doesn't need to pay much (900k, your figure) for this prime exposure and enhancement to their public image

You may be interested in this Age newspaper article from 2007.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/ ... e=fullpage

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

that is a very enlightening example....

From my experience when you see this sort of corporate or government culture prevail, it often can be sourced to leadership quality and depth right through the organization.

strong honest leadership brings everyone together, united in some common purpose.....

If people throughout the organization on all levels, feel disempowered, left out, not respected or devalued in any way, a poor culture develops. Negativity, inefficiency, high staff turnover, low productivity etc set in...

Whilst things cant be perfect, at very least everyone should be rowing in the same direction and feeling part of the team...

And at carlton we haven't seen that all that often both on and off the field.....

the Board Oligarchs that Mr S refers to, have a lot to answer for in this regard

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

philanthropia is fun

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Yes especially when you take 350 million dollars with one hand and give back 10 million dollars with the other.....

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Should we merge with Melbourne ?