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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Robert Walls
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The problem with the renovation is there is nothing to renovate with. In all the national drafts since and including 2007 we've picked up 23 players (excluding rookie upgrades). Yep... Seven drafts and we've barely chosen enough players to create one new team.

The midfield was our problem last year. You looked in the reserves and we had Graham who could come in. This year we have Graham, Cripps, and Holman. But if pace is one of the most glaring deficiencies then none of those players fix it.

The club needs five picks this year. You don't stop drafting just because you haven't been able to do it before.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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:thumbsup:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
verbs wrote:
Malthouse being the new Pagan was signposted well before he'd coached a competitive game for the Blues. Is he as stubborn as Pagan was? Let's hope like hell he's not. Unfortunately he's not someone who likes to have assistants with vision and innovation, so we're entirely left to his mercies. As fun as it was to make the finals last year, it has papered over a poor year by Malthouse, and we're set for a carbon copy this year, or perhaps even worse.

Things can be turned around. Even Melbourne are looking like they have a better concept of what to do out on the footy field, even if they don't have the ability to execute it yet.

If we keep bombing to a contest, we will finish bottom 6.


I think we are heading for the spoon - Its only a matter of time before the players lose faith in what they are doing - Signs are there that their confidence is already shot and kicking for goal is all about confidence

In any form of life you have to believe in what you are doing then you will succeed ,if you dont then you cant give it your complete effort and eventually you give up trying - We are one or 2 beltings away from a complete capitulation

Malthouse was brought in because they considered we had the players to take us to a flag and he would do it . Why now some 12 months on are the players all shit

It's all about belief - I would not have given 20 bob for a Freo player 2-3 years ago - Now they are flag favourites because they believe in what they are doing will result in success and they are confident about it

This is going to be a sad and depressing year for Carlton folk and it will continue for several years to come if Mick doesn't pull his head out of his arse


If we manage to keep the side out there playing plus add in Walker, carrots and Judd no way known we will get the spoon. I remember own spoon sides and this is much better .

However our dumb ass board were talking top 4 when we all knew that wasn't possible and we are a lucky 7-8 at absolute best, I had us 11th at the beginning if the year and I'm thinking now maybe 13-14.

We need to be honest with where we are at and what needs to be done.

Personally I would like to see Mick moved on at the end of next year, spend less on a new coach and bolster the amount of assistant coaches and look at holistically improving the football department, this should also extend to the playing list, no more over spending on individuals like Judd or Thomas. Let Gibbs go if we wants any more than 600, simply isn't worth it. Without him and Judd that frees up a lot of cash to strengthen other areas on so e younger players in the 300-400k range.

The chickens have come home to roost and we need to accept we have flowered up royally.


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
If we manage to keep the side out there playing plus add in Walker, carrots and Judd no way known we will get the spoon. I remember own spoon sides and this is much better .

However our dumb ass board were talking top 4 when we all knew that wasn't possible and we are a lucky 7-8 at absolute best, I had us 11th at the beginning if the year and I'm thinking now maybe 13-14.

We need to be honest with where we are at and what needs to be done.

Personally I would like to see Mick moved on at the end of next year, spend less on a new coach and bolster the amount of assistant coaches and look at holistically improving the football department, this should also extend to the playing list, no more over spending on individuals like Judd or Thomas. Let Gibbs go if we wants any more than 600, simply isn't worth it. Without him and Judd that frees up a lot of cash to strengthen other areas on so e younger players in the 300-400k range.

The chickens have come home to roost and we need to accept we have flowered up royally.

Hate to say it, but this sums up my feeling, particularly the highlighted part. Nothing against Mick, I'm convinced that he's still a great coach. But I'd have much preferred we actually go through a proper process (just for a change), consider someone like Ken Hinkley who would've cost far less, and invest more in people he would work well with. I look at our assistants and see a bunch that no-one else wanted.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
Mick will do what's best for Mick, and if it coincides with the best interests of the club, well and good, if not, well Mick comes first, and if he is challenged the toys are flung from the cot. There is some hope . Murphy seems not to be a natural leader but he is working hard. Yarran has amazing talent and a great coach will bring it out consistently. Hendo is very good and Tuohy, Buckley, Menzel, Bell and various others have promise, but we are a long way behind at least half the comp. shocking decisions at board level and failing to take advantage of the many high draft picks we have had. So we need to start again. Hopefully there is a group out there with the will and skill to chuck out the current board and run the place properly. We have to endure miserable Mick till the end of 2015 then we can let him go into a bitter belligerent retirement and get a good young coach who can build a side for the long term


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
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..the bomb isn't mm plan at all.. ..playing wide, kick to a contest near the boundary as a last resort.. ..not bomb.. ..the bomb is us, we have done it for years, ask fev when we'd just bomb it to him (never to advantage) when he'd have two or three defenders on him.. ..remember always asking, if he has so many on him where are our free forwards.. ..years later and different coaches later, still the same question.. ..I have a similar question I've been asking for years.. ..where is our functioning, creative hf line..?.. ..when will we embrace a chf..??..

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:07 am 
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Bert Deacon
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The Bomb isn't the MM plan. It's safety first out of defence (hence the hugging the boundary line). Then kicking to a forward on the lead whether on the fat side or around the pocket. Only put it in the middle if a man if free (i.e. no-one within 20 metres).

The bomb is an inditement on the lack of kicking skills alot of the players have. Leigh Matthews made the point near the end of his playing career that the game has changed where the kicker has a responsibility to ensure the kick is to advantage to the man up the field.

Also MM turned the game around after quarter time. Does anyone really think that Carlton would have come close to winning the game if they were 7 goals behind at quarter time. It was inaccurate kicking infront of goal that cost Carlton. Has cost us quite a bit of late. MM would recognise this and would be working out ways to retrain the brain of a Carlton forward infron of goal.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:33 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Starting with replacing Mick.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:51 am 
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formerly Moaty

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:29 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Echo Beach
AGRO wrote:
Which just go to show how puss weak our List Management has been - total rebuild not renovation is required.


Lets relocate to New Zealand! :eek:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:03 pm 
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formerly Moaty

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Posts: 235
Location: Echo Beach
dannyboy wrote:
I'd be happy if we kicked to a contest and Richmond marked it, it was our foot passing to the unmarked Richmond blokes miles way from anyone that really impressed me, almost as good as our shots on goals (and the way Garlett combined both was Nijinskiesque). Perhaps the trick it to spread a large opposition's jumper across our goals and we'll nick 'em from anywhere.



From what I saw during the game the above highlighted happened also.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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true but at least i saw a carlton jumper there, so i could understand why they kicked it, might not like the choice, but the why was there, so may times there were only richmond jumpers and we still kicked it to them.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18010
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
Blue Vain wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.


:clap: Post of the year


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
Blue Vain wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.

Why couldn't mm make primary list changes in his first year because ratten and swann had contracted mediocrity on multi year deals and don't fudge the facts 25 percent is 25 percent and he will keep pruning. You delude yourself that the list mm is working with is as good as rattens. Ratten left the place in an absolute mess.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10558
scottopee wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.


:clap: Post of the year


Agree. :thanks:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 915
The renovation has begun. Plenty of development going into the next crop. Mick will slowly introduce a few more kids and give them a taste but only when they are ready.

Few things I've heard.......

Mick is working over time to convince Ben Reid to join he Thomas at he blues... Watch this space.

Spoke to a 'very' senior player who is very impressed with Cameron Giles. He thinks this kid will play plenty of games.

Bryce Gibbs and the club are about 200k per year apart. Also precious Bryce wants to see how much on ball time he gets as the crows see him as genuine on ballet and not a utility.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 915
The player I spoke to also said our skill level isn't a problem. He agrees we don't have some of the best users by foot but also believes The issue is the lack of structure up forward. The players are almost second guessing themselves because the lack of tall targets or even medium to small hit ups. He said that basically our boys are almost kicking in hope or passing in hope to create something.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 915
SurreyBlue wrote:
scottopee wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.


:clap: Post of the year


Agree. :thanks:


Ratten had Judd. Juddy carried this team. Mick doesn't have that luxury.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18010
Michael Jezz wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
Mick prunes 25 percent of the list
Mick moves Simpson back and reinvigorates him
Mick remodels buckley as a running back
Mick personally gets Everett and Thomas to carlton
Mick puts Duigan forward to win us a final
Just be careful you don't turn coaching appointments into a personality contest
He is the best thing going for us


You remind me of my dog Michael Jezz. Roaming around my backyard dropping turds and walking away without any accountability. :lol:
Its like your post the other day about Mick making us defend. :lol: You post absolute nonsense and walk away with zero responsibility to the bullshit you post.

Just remind me, if Mick is the best thing going for us, why are we 0-2?
Why are we conceding more points per game than we were under Ratten?
Why is our winning percentage under your hero less than it was in the previous 4 years of Ratten?
Why are we paying twice as much for a coach who is delivering less?
Why are you crowing about Mick pruning 25% of the list when the reality is we've made less primary list changes under Mick than most of the successful sides above us have?

Just to put in perspective "the best thing we have going for us", lets look at Micks achievements at Carlton compared to the last 3 years of Ratten. (You know him, the guy you unmercifully shitcanned)

Under Mick we've conceded more points per game than we did in Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we've kicked less points per game than we did in 2 of Rattens final 3 years.
Under Mick we're 16th in the AFL for disposals so not only are we conceding more and scoring less, we cant actually keep the ball when we get it. (Thank God for Melbourne and GWS although I suspect theyll surpass us this year)

All for the cost of upwards of $1,000,00 per year plus the money we've spent to pay out coaches he didnt like! What a pisser!
I'll PM you my address later. You and my dog can compare droppings.

Why couldn't mm make primary list changes in his first year because ratten and swann had contracted mediocrity on multi year deals and don't fudge the facts 25 percent is 25 percent and he will keep pruning. You delude yourself that the list mm is working with is as good as rattens. Ratten left the place in an absolute mess.



I'll get back to you on this later. I'm still pissing myself laughing at you asking Synbad to verify some facts in another post. :lol:
You wouldnt know a fact if one grew on your arse.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2645
trublu wrote:
The player I spoke to also said our skill level isn't a problem. He agrees we don't have some of the best users by foot but also believes The issue is the lack of structure up forward. The players are almost second guessing themselves because the lack of tall targets or even medium to small hit ups. He said that basically our boys are almost kicking in hope or passing in hope to create something.



This I believe and it makes sense.

We have been pointing this out for a while.
If we haven't got these structures in place what system is there to go forward.
Everyone is caught behind the ball without forward targets.
We break down without targets in place and bomb in hope to get distance or a lucky break.

This is where Micks structures and plan break down and have us looking like chooks.

This isn't good enough from an experienced coach.


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