The place has lost its soul

List management has been timid.

I'd hate to think player marketability has had too much influence in deciding who stays and who goes.

Well Synbad the above terms of debate are exactly why your methods are annoying. You make good points but change the terms of an argument midstream to promote your case.
The argument is Are the Matheison & Pratt Families Oligarchies that control the club. Oligarchies are associated with control and rule. In your rage above you move the argument from "control" to "influence" and then stream to some conspiracy theory of using Sticks to ensure the Status quo.

I have no debate with the point of influence. Of course Pratt and Mathieson have influence but so does Mckay, Swann, Fraser Brown, Sticks and Wayne Hughes. I would argue Hughes has had more influence on our results than any board member. The Pratt-Matheison money which I value as a member, affords them voice. Has it been to the clubs benefit. Most of the time yes: proper facilities, Surpluses, debt repayments, affording a decent head coach and using their connections to aid sponsorship. Don't forget the Carlton Football Club was on the verge of "handing back the keys". Have Pratt/Matheson/Board made mistakes. Yes I would say they don't have a strong handle on football matters and should have gone through a proper process when appointing Malthouse (although in my view a decent appointment.

In any case this is not a debate about influence but about WHETHER THEY CONTROL THE CLUB.

My contention is the Matheson/Pratts do not control the club but are probably the most influential board members.
They do not control the club for the following reasons

a) They occupy 3 of 11 board positions
b) They didn't appoint the other board members. At least 3 (Kernahan, Clark, Gleeson) were on before them. I couldn't find dates for the rest but their are plenty of board members that don't agree with these families
b) Sticks asked the Pratts to be involved. They did not appoint Sticks as President. In the Pratts case they supported the club with no strings attached money from the 1960's to 2007. This would be a staggering amount of money in today's $ If anything the Pratts represent the anti-thesis of control
c) If they are so dependent on Sticks for the status quo as you say why did at least some of the families you refer to seek out Fahour, who I gather you support?
c) The families' motive is to help the club and would be happy to leave and I am sure that day will come.
d) Board Vacancies can be filled unelected in the first instance but 1/3 of the board has to stand for re election every year. We can turn the board over every 3 years if we wish.
e)No director is allowed to hold his/her position for more than 12 years. That is hardly a recipe for complete control

So my argument is this. Have they influence- Yes. Have they made a valued Contribition-Yes. Have they made mistakes-Yes. Should there influence be diminished -Yes as a result of new people with better ideas. BUT don't confuse those issues with a conspiracy theory based on control so that you can blame the Carlton Football Clubs on field performance on the people that have done more to help the club than most.

What's the record for most words before a response on TC?

its called scoreboard pressure.

im relentless when we get to this kind of thing...

............leading to.........what???

a. Self gratification?
b. A delivery to the CFC for the betterment to the club?
c. No idea.........just a bit of a bitch?

Serious question without the strawman reply..

harks we dont all look at the world the same as u

ive said were run by oligarchs that have shored themselves up
jezz reckons im wrong
youre getting involved in something u are not elading anywhere except

a. Self gratification?
b. A delivery to the CFC for the betterment to the club?
c. No idea.........just a bit of a bitch?

i think the last one is you....with a touch of the first one.....

nb reports are your thing.....

go type up some stuff about where were heading with those guys...
try to give yourself some b) from above.....

1) and c) just arent enough from you.....

right now im interested in how the Oligarchs are sshoring themselves up in power and how fans are being frozen out...

jezz is helping me illustrate that because i believe its very important to see the club for what it is.

you do your thing... tell us about watson and holman...

Synbad,

I gave you a clear answer as to why 3 people do not control the club. Maybe instead of your bitter invective answer how they have done so? Interesting how you rattle on about kernahan being their puppet when they wanted Farhour and you can't count board seats or recognise how they are constitutionally limited so what are the specific areas where they run the club on a daily basis
Recruitment? Match committee? Training? . My position is defended. Remember argue all you like about competence, influence but this is about your theories about control

NB reports? You don't like them?
I'll tell you why I put them here...........because I feel that some Carlton people appreciate them and when they don't............they stop.
I feel a level of duty as when I choose to look at a board I wish to add a little back..........sort of the right thing to do.........but hey...........knock me for it..

Gets back to the same old thing....we've all heard the words but where are the actions?
I've lent you my support on the strength of some affirmative action...I have...haven't I?

Now what are you going to do? Talk or act? Give us something Synbad as I think you've got plenty to add...but just talk?..............no thanks.

Show me the money mate.

harks why are u so small minded ???

why cant i be an option out of hundreds? yeas i kno there are not 100s of letters

but you can number them a10ds a10dt etc.....

you see harks i know youre abit on the narrow minded side of things and everything is one of 4 or 5 options.. and i on the other hand can see so many more things going on.

maake a bigger list of things i can choose from.. because your 4 or 5 options just show how limited u r....

i dont fit in your little option mode...

its very simple.. im more complex than that.. and you know it...

why do people always feel the need to be so simple in how they think harks???