who would you get to do the independent review

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Not knocking you personally Synbad as you know your stuff.....you know it very well. I've told you that personally, haven't I?

Can't even knock Sherrin as he put his money where his mouth was last year. Hats off to him.
Won't knock Mikkey either because he put his face and words up to media scrutiny..........respect to him.

There are followers about though. People that will follow the big boys and you know it........
O.K so we're mediocre.....now what......reapeat it ad nauseum for the express purpose of........some strange sort of self-gratification? No? then what? Where are the words directed to? I'm right, aren't I?

Sorry my NB reports aren't doing it for you though.
Some would sooner hear "Watson has a big head" or maybe "McLean is slow".............Guess we can't please everyone all of the time.

remember harks ..... geelong had one even though costa and cooke were not crap like sticks and swann.

it turned out that after thay had theirs... everybody got a reality check and it manifested into flags

but of leadership came to the fore.... even now chaps and bartell are leading their teams to victory.
the fact we dont know what leadership is..... means nobody would dare uestion juddy or murph and call them something really crappy and politically incorrect like "prima madonnas".. im sure chaps or bartell would call their team mates prima donnas if they played like that.

consider buddy.. he goes to sydney for 10 million over ten years...but he flowers around .. and what happens??.. a leader .. okeefe calls him up and oesnt let him get away with it....

LEADERSHIP!!!

if you dont wanna be called prima donna harks.. go do something else and dont play footy.
and if u had a kid.. and he gets called games.. and youre upset.. because your kid is.. hes not gunna win flaags is he???
hes a bit of a sensive type... he probably plays for carlton....

this team and this club need to grow the @#$%&! u pand get themselves a backbone. and they certainly dont need you acting like their mother hen...
#

think about that....!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

harks ... this is not a game for babies.
if the players cant be called fat head or brock the rock...
if nobody can tell judd off for not improving aspects of his game
if nobody will tell murph he is weak as piss
that bootsma is a lazy @#$%&!
that sticks is shit
that the bored are in the board


why are we even paying money in the hope we might win a flag one day?

does this sound like a club that is going to have the steel in the balls to win a flag???

i know this is 2014 .. and men have been castrated and wear aprons these days

but go tell that to lewis or mitchell or hodge or okeefe or chaps or bartell

you see harker.. even our supporters are soft like the board and the team.

the whole club is soft

we went and got juddy a helper...

we said juddy needs a helper and we got brock

we didnt get brock for the team.. we got juddy a helper.. a servant...

he needs another one.. one that will run the other way for him

how sick did u feel when murph didnt pull the trigger on those shots at goals. and he passed the responsibility to someone else.. someone else is aka mitch robinson... who fluffed it

after he did that TWO times.. and in the last where bartell and chaps kick goals to win games...
murph is being massaged.. hes showing us all he is getting massaged...he couldnt kick.. but i bet hes ok for the next game right???

why dont chaps and bartell do that too?? pass it to someone else and run off for 15 minutes to get a massage ???fifteen @#$%&! minutes to get a massage when we need him on the ground...
where does he think he is Thailand or something??? @#$%&! Phuket!!

Its a competition Murph you soft cock captain...!!! there u go harks i abused him....

why wouldnt the dominator do that???

ill tell u why!!! they have balls of steel!!!.. and balls of steel wins flags...
mollycoddled prima donnas dont!!!

they dont need you defending them.. its part of the problem harks.

they can prove people wrong

were a laughing stock!!!.. everybody is laughing at those players.. for being downhill skiiers.

Do they have no shame or pride???

stop adding to the problem...

i know you wanna get all mummy n stuff.. and even write letters to one if he ends up in jail.... but the moment a young man enters a football environment he becomes a gladiator.. the difference is this is not life and death... its a flag!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I've said it here before and I'll say it again...........at times the tones coming about are that of bed-wetters.
Ones that when they don't get their way, or see what they want, come to water.

Can't tell you the amount of times I've been blessed with "Carlton people" wanting to talk to me at VFL games bitching about how we aren't what we used to be.
Now that may be music to many ears but it's just so regressive and backward, that frankly makes me want to run for cover.

Horses for courses I guess.

Synbad...I have a very short attention span but will try and scan over some of this protracted message.

Point 1: Name calling? Useless, undignified and pointless........Not my style.

Point2 : Soft supporters? How does that make any difference unless we're actually wishing to be proactive....Doc Sherrin put an idea forward......Yours?

Point 3: I'm not defending anyone? How am I part of any problem? Want to talk about Kernahan, The Board or Swann? The players didn't pick themselves and other than 3 players, we have most pulling together.

Adding to the problem? I can't spend the necessary brain power trying to solve this enigma wrapped in a riddle. Weird...............

harks things seperate the fair dinkum teams and players and the also rans.

what youre saying is the great players and the great teams.. worry about abuse.

heres something for u harks... while youre worried about the shit they cop
the truly good players worry about failure.

what drives people into greatness???.. its certainly not cotton balling them is it???

greatness comes to people that truly seek to compete as beasts and fear failure .. and people who have something to prove

the sydney situation was a great example.

we had motivation.. a prelim...
they were winged.. yet on the day we didnt rise.. but we were limp... thus ended our season with soctcockidness
first game this year.. its repeat...!!!

they need hardening up....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

the guy called our players prima donnas and u went into a huff

hes right!!!.. they are

individually not all.. collectively as a representation of the CFC...all!!

now what im saying is ... if they dont like it... they shouldnt be playing footy.. no future

if you dont like it for them.... i can understand.. but also understand to somebody else they are...
and their competitiors... and it doesnt matter what competition joe the camerman is in.. thats what hes gunna get

often by their peers... so i wouldnt worry about it.. you dont understand it... im just letting u know you dont understand it .... so dont worry about it.
joe the cameraman is everywhere in a sporting sphere... and in the strong clubs his peers will call him exactly that!!!..even a pooftah!!!....

if he shrinks he wont make it...!!!... if he rises he survives...thats sport!!!.. many games going on at the one time.., some on the field.. some in their heads..

wish someone would call juddy up as a cheat.. and murph...
just like okeefe pulled up buddy...

carlton??? nahhhh!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I still see it as a team sport and not an individual thing.
It's like a great group of mates...........they'll do anything for one another and add weight to the individual number.

One thing I didn't say about yesterdays useless VFL practice match was that all the voice was coming from Sandy players...the direction...the advice.., the support etc.
We were largely voiceless other than calling out players names requesting the ball.

That worries me.

were voiceless because we dont get stuck into each other and the opposition...
just in case we hurt someones feelings

murph u soft cock ... its your responsibility to kick that goal... you captains arsehole
juddy you lazy piece of overpaid shit.. thats your bloke running up the ground with no pressure putting the defence under the pump.
garlett is your body painted on your weak cauliflower??
etc etc etc

im with you.. i wanna hear my voice...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Carlton players are mentally soft have been for years, would rather watch someone run past than have a go at them.

True, Mr S...

But the changes MUST be driven on field and by the playing group.

The leadership group made attitude and standard changes within the playing group.
Ablett was challenged to be the BEST player in the competition (has been for some years now).
They told Stevie Johnston to pull his head in, and piss off from the club for a while to get his head straight (became an elite big game player, match winner)
And even Bomber Thompson (who isn't anything special as an innovative coach) made changes, whereby he gave more control to the playing group (re match ups, selections etc)

The Blues have NEVER done this in any significant way on any level.

I can only recall one instance when Diesel was appointed as skills acquisition coach one season. Diesel challenged the playing group to improve their skills, especially kicking skills, by directly challenging our skipper at the time (Judd) to improve his kicking.

We all know what happened after that don't we ladies and gentlemen. Diesel corrected Murphs kicking for goal and left soon afterwards.

Actually went to the Bombers to work with their midfield.

Jobe Watson gave a lot of credit to Diesel for improving his game after he wont he 2012 Brownlow

(although Jobe should have also thanked Dank, Charters and the off site injection clinic nurses - but that's another issue isn't it ladies and Gentlemen)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Trying to remember the last time I was sold on an "end game" for anything the club did.

Number of decisions that have happened that I've supported in the last decade, but have never either a) agreed with the logic behind the decision or b) even heard the logic behind it. Called for Betts to go early last year. It happened. Cool. The club were wishy-washy about justifying it, wish he could stay, just couldn't make it happen. Did we do it for list management reasons? Or money? Or did the decision just get made for us and we went along with it?

I get a number of other club's marketing spiel in their email. It's hard to fault the approach. Hawthorn farewelled Buddy as a two time premiership player/club hero, and left its supporters in no doubt that they were in a better position for it well before he'd even had a couple of dud runs at the Swans. They'd learnt their lesson from how they initially handled the Croad trade. I get why Adelaide have moved to the Adelaide Oval. I've seen the facilities, I've seen the rise in membership numbers, I hear the comments from players jumping on board or staying with the club about how great facilities were pivotal to the decision being made.

Since we put out that Blue Print document, we've put long term ambition on the back burner largely because we're embarrassed with the goals set out in that document. Lets not talk goals or end games with the supporters, because we could look foolish. Are we signing Gibbs to a long term deal/letting him walk as its part of a larger plan? Have we picked some guy with our first pick because its consistent with long term list management strategies, or because we liked the look of him? Are we positioning ourselves to play Good Friday, or move to the G as there's significant long term gains to be made out of it, or are we looking for a sugar hit and a nice bit of good publicity?

I'm told we NEED 50,000 members, we NEED to move to the G, we NEED pokies, we NEED an established coach, we NEED to keep our required players, and I see it as no different to how when I was in high school, I needed brand name clothes, I needed a mobile phone with the cool features, I needed a faster computer and I needed more money. So far, the club has shown we don't need those things, they're a scattering of decisions that aren't a bad idea. Hey, if a premiership turns up on the doorstep if everything goes our way, great.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

The Blue print is a nothing document - an Ernst and Young /Consultants Power Point of motherhood statements.

If the Carlton Board cannot articulate their own objectives in their own hand writing then it is logical that the Carlton Board cannot practically execute the objectives expressed therein...

List management has been timid.

I'd hate to think player marketability has had too much influence in deciding who stays and who goes.

...not being able to keep Betts is a good indication of how the club is run, and how individualistic the players are.

The cats during their flag glory period (which probably hasn't finished) deliberately had a player payment philosophy that put list cohesion and success as a top priority.

During that period they didn't pay any payer over 500k, but had numerous players on that 350 to 450 range. Bartel was wining flags, norm smith medals and brownlows on less than 400k

The players made a conscious decision to favor team success over individual gain. Other teams have done this as well.

If we wanted to keep Betts we would have made room for him, and we would have got Daisy as well, who was coming to carlton because of Mick anyway. Adelaide couldn't believe their luck, and their coach said "Eddie Betts not only kicks goals and is an exciting player that lifts the team, but was also the most defensive forward in the league over the past 3 years."

What the blues players were worried about are things like Visy contracts (esp Judd's lucrative deal) and financial deals and partnerships with Board Members.

is it any wonder the supporters are negative and frustrated?

This is a club culture issue that permeates everything the club does

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

True. Players are more worried about the clothing business's, Gibbs, Murphy, Robbo etc.

There is no outward enthusiasm from them. Or outward show of toughness, especially after a loss.

Ziggy!

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I got more upset at losing a game playing for the Shepparton Reserves than these guys do when they get beaten.

GWS will probably beat Carton this year simply because the players don't appear to have pride in their performance.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Is it true though the players have been thoroughly conditioned to 'move on' as quickly as possible after a game (especially a loss) ?