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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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I thought we played well early and if we had made the most of our opportunities we could have a lead of 5-6 goals. At one stage it was 15 scoring shots to 7, they kicked straight.
These fade outs are a concern.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Robert Walls
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kezza wrote:
As a matter of interest, how many players taken in the last 5 National Drafts played last night?
I can think of Menzel, Watson and McInnes.


That's it, plus rookies:

Tuohy - international rookie
Bell, Curnow - rookies


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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tap in 79 wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..knockers is 27, and hasn't even played 100 games.. ..we chased him and paid overs coz we thought he would be like Sandi, and krooz was gonna be the next sticks, even though he has never been a key forward type.. ..we keep flirting with the idea of krooz being part ruck part fwd, when it is obvious krooz is an all round work horse ruck.. ..his best games have been him as main ruck.. ..play him as man ruck.. ..knockers can't carry the load anyway, he'll be spent by mid season..



Kruezer isn't good enough in the ruck or as a forward, but he does play relatively well (by his standards) against Richmond. Do you give him one more week? That is the question.

He is a nice guy obviously but we aren't playing for tiddlywinks. This is a serious matter and the emotional element should be taken out of it. Everyone likes Kreuzer obviously as he gives it his all and is a real trier, but this is too important to let slide.


Another option is to get Warnock & Casboult (Despite his terrible kicking) or some other combination that gives Carlton an option other than having a match with 2 ruckmen - 1 playing poorly, 1 playing ok. In modern football you can't carry a ruckman as the game is all about speed through the midfield now. You are basically just gifting Port an extra runner.


One of the reasons why Port ran over the top of Carlton is that they went in with one ruckman - Lobbe and had Trengove (15 possessions) a 197cm defender who did some hit outs. There was no double ruckmen option. If we are going double ruckman one of them has to be able to kick goals &/or get a lot of possessions- neither can, so we have to go with the better ruckman, which is Warnock.


Can you remember the 2012 grand final? Two ruckmen - Pyke (16 posessions, 29 hit-outs), Mumford (with an injury - 6 possessions- 14 hit-outs, 3 tackles). Compare that to the match on the weekend - Kreuzer (14 possessions, no tackles, 13 hitouts) and Warnock (4 possessions, 31 hit outs and 1 tackle). ie both Swans ruckmen were contributors and Mumford came off in the last quarter. They subbed out their less effective ruckman and had the option of putting on a runner - Parker.

Carlton on the weekend instead kept two ruckmen in the mix in the last quarter (taking Bell off - who could have pinch hit as a defacto ruckman to wrestle around the boundary - (not in the midfield battles as you risk knee injuries) anyway and he was a running option. ie given us even more run. Taking Bell off in the last quarter was bizarre. They needed runners, why take out a runner and leave on a cumbersome ruckman (Kreuzer) who is having no impact? and/or leave on McLean who was a deer in the spotlight?

Bell is going to give Carlton a lot of options if they persist with him. He just needs more game time. He isn't the best player but at least he can play many roles.






Wayne Johnston said in an interview a few weeks back said Warnock is the key - and we have to persist with him. For the time being, I agree with the Dominator.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/c ... 6852882535


..and yet, krooz has had more match winning games than knockers.. ..knockers has yet to truly dominate a game like krooz has.. ..knockerz can't sustain a season worthy of footy.. ..he is 27 and averages less than half a season worth of games a year.. ..he's kicked a dozen goals roughly over his entire career, one or two more than krooz did in his first year alone.. ..one measly goal all year last year.. ..he is not fit nor hard enough to play as first ruck and hasn't shown an aptitude for that aspect of footy.. ..he is the ruck mirage.. ..talk him up, but you can't rely on him.. ..any knock and he starts limping..



..Warnock does not control the ruck and give our mids silver platter service, what he is good at is negating the other ruck in stoppages but we don't get enough good service from him to cover him when he is not in the ruck..

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Same shit, different year.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:09 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..


..and yet, krooz has had more match winning games than knockers.. ..knockers has yet to truly dominate a game like krooz has.. ..knockerz can't sustain a season worthy of footy.. ..he is 27 and averages less than half a season worth of games a year.. ..he's kicked a dozen goals roughly over his entire career, one or two more than krooz did in his first year alone.. ..one measly goal all year last year.. ..he is not fit nor hard enough to play as first ruck and hasn't shown an aptitude for that aspect of footy.. ..he is the ruck mirage.. ..talk him up, but you can't rely on him.. ..any knock and he starts limping..



..Warnock does not control the ruck and give our mids silver platter service, what he is good at is negating the other ruck in stoppages but we don't get enough good service from him to cover him when he is not in the ruck..


Warnock played better than Kreuzer on the weekend and won most of his hit-outs and attacked the ruck with gusto.

They can't play two ineffective or one ineffective/one half-decent ruckmen in matches. It isn't a good plan going forward. How long should we wait for Kreuzer to take contested marks? 2 years? 3 years? Did Nicholls have trouble taking contested marks?

It is too much to carry for the rest of the team to have two ruckmen neither playing very well.

They will need to sort it out long-term. Maybe with Richmond they will have to go with two ruckmen as Richmond will go with two rucks, but if they do they should substitute one of the ruckmen in the last quarter.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Isn't simpler to say either ruckman will have fluctuating levels of form during their career's?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Disappointing to learn that Coach Synbad has drawn a line through Cripps name already. Oh well, was good while it lasted. :donk:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:40 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Disappointing to learn that Coach Synbad has drawn a line through Cripps name already. Oh well, was good while it lasted. :donk:


Cripps will be a very good player. How good? Only time will tell after he is tested at AFL level but I am confident in him becoming very very good.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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tap in 79 wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..


..and yet, krooz has had more match winning games than knockers.. ..knockers has yet to truly dominate a game like krooz has.. ..knockerz can't sustain a season worthy of footy.. ..he is 27 and averages less than half a season worth of games a year.. ..he's kicked a dozen goals roughly over his entire career, one or two more than krooz did in his first year alone.. ..one measly goal all year last year.. ..he is not fit nor hard enough to play as first ruck and hasn't shown an aptitude for that aspect of footy.. ..he is the ruck mirage.. ..talk him up, but you can't rely on him.. ..any knock and he starts limping..



..Warnock does not control the ruck and give our mids silver platter service, what he is good at is negating the other ruck in stoppages but we don't get enough good service from him to cover him when he is not in the ruck..


Warnock played better than Kreuzer on the weekend and won most of his hit-outs and attacked the ruck with gusto.

They can't play two ineffective or one ineffective/one half-decent ruckmen in matches. It isn't a good plan going forward. How long should we wait for Kreuzer to take contested marks? 2 years? 3 years? Did Nicholls have trouble taking contested marks?

It is too much to carry for the rest of the team to have two ruckmen neither playing very well.

They will need to sort it out long-term. Maybe with Richmond they will have to go with two ruckmen as Richmond will go with two rucks, but if they do they should substitute one of the ruckmen in the last quarter.



..as he should, he played first ruck for most of the game so was able to get in his groove and he wasn't underdone.. ..how did he play out of the ruck though??.. ..as for contested marking, krooz is in the top bracket for marking among other rucks.. ..you don't wanna know how knockers goes, trust me.. ..but it is a moot point, cos knockers can't withstand the ruckload..

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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yes cripps is the 6ft 5 95 kilos version of diesel williams..

cant wait to see him gallop around the ground playing midfield....

to put it in perspective .. hes the same size as watson ... slightly longer hands and around the same tank .. slightly faster..less of a kick... but a midfielder

he might still make it.. if he grows a few more cms and becomes a ruckman....

thats NOT what youre looking for when youre drafting.
Dunstan i think his name is over at StKilda is a big kid.. taken later...but he will be good... why?
because hes not outrageously oversized for this fast moving endurance game....

ive already stated why his bodytype doesnt suit..
nobody has shown me who has been his size and has played the game...

i like to go with common sense and %ers
some of you like to dream

im usually right....

you blokes are usually wrong..

again just work the %ers

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Dunstall:

"Port would play the possession game and kick to lead up targets....Carlton would go long"

"The long bailout kick should be the last resort"

Nothing will change while you have a Pagan clone.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Synbad wrote:

im usually right....

you blokes are usually wrong..

again just work the %ers


:lol: :clap:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

..as he should, he played first ruck for most of the game so was able to get in his groove and he wasn't underdone.. ..how did he play out of the ruck though??.. ..as for contested marking, krooz is in the top bracket for marking among other rucks.. ..you don't wanna know how knockers goes, trust me.. ..but it is a moot point, cos knockers can't withstand the ruckload..


Is that really the case re: MK's marking? I'm finding his marking attempts to be non AFL standard for a player of his stature. Runs under the ball, puts up his cardboard arms, and has no confidence in a marking contest. How this has not been rectified for a player that's being groomed to play forward is staggering.

I say play Kreuzer in the 2's. Get fit, get some confidence & work on his deficiencies (incl. his field & goal kicking).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Effes wrote:
Dunstall:

"Port would play the possession game and kick to lead up targets....Carlton would go long"

"The long bailout kick should be the last resort"

Nothing will change while you have a Pagan clone.

yes robinson... curnow.. ball.. all spotting up targets.. mciness..
a caleidoscope of ball users...

our blokes cant kick....

they cant mark under pressure
who can stand under a ball and take a mark???

plus we dont work hard enough to make position
take mciness... he never runs anywhere to create an attacking option.
but i can say the same for most of us...

we dont even tackle..

how the hell are we gunna play a spot up target game???
we have few runners

we are trying to play the clearance game.. cos we have a stack of those kinds of mids... with no skills
i hate when people compare our team to teams who have deliberately gone out to recruit guys who can kick and mark.. run and spread both ways etc

we have slugs who cant kick...
imagine standing under a juddy kick ....



or a lucas kick

armfield

carrazzo

curnow

bell :yikes:

mciness

garlett

frightening stuff and suggestion

we can watch other teams as much as we like...
the ones that tackle like freo
the ones that zip passes around hawthorn

and then there are the ones like us...

not everybody can do the good stuff....or everybody would be great

we cant even spread...


we dont tackle

and we cant kick the simple goals..

so now were going to play with polish??? :eek:

pleasse try and keep in mind where this football team is at right now...

you need balls and nerves of steel as well as work rate to do all that

were not renowned for that stuff...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Robert Walls
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....the Blues new Coach

Image

Mr Swann is already on the assignment

Big 9 million dollar 3 year deal (Graig Starcevich and Wearmouth thrown into deal as Buckleys right hand men, and directors of coaching and development)

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Last edited by Cretylus on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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we have a rookie drafted midfield with a couple of early picks thrown in
hardly the recipe for polish and succeess
not one second rounder out there on sunday... not one...

take that with a grain of salt if you want......

but i often look jealously at freos tackling... or hawthorns short sharp delivery

we cant tackle... and refuze to work hard.. and we dont have hawthorns skill set

but imagine of we did... wed win a flag.......
but we dont...

we have a much maligned early pick group plus a bunch of rookie listed players

wishing isnt going to change that....

the early picks dont tackle...
the rookies cant kick

if only we had that dr frankenstein saw factory

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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DocSherrin wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
If anyone was at the game like I was did they notice the change in effort from the second qtr?

In the first qtr we were all zoning and playing someone behind the ball at all times and they were all working together. In the second qtr several players started running forward of the ball and it all fell apart.

There are a few players that simply want to play the game on there terms. Don't work hard enough and are selfish.


...and that's long been the criticism - that we have too many 'cheats'. I watched the game on the iPad, so it's difficult to pick up on who the guilty players are, but a few - like 'Brick' McLean - ought to know better.


Some aren't capable like 'Brick', and some like Robbo will never know better...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Synbad wrote:
Effes wrote:
Dunstall:

"Port would play the possession game and kick to lead up targets....Carlton would go long"

"The long bailout kick should be the last resort"

Nothing will change while you have a Pagan clone.

yes robinson... curnow.. ball.. all spotting up targets.. mciness..
a caleidoscope of ball users...

our blokes cant kick....

they cant mark under pressure
who can stand under a ball and take a mark???

plus we dont work hard enough to make position
take mciness... he never runs anywhere to create an attacking option.
but i can say the same for most of us...

we dont even tackle..

how the hell are we gunna play a spot up target game???
we have few runners

we are trying to play the clearance game.. cos we have a stack of those kinds of mids... with no skills
i hate when people compare our team to teams who have deliberately gone out to recruit guys who can kick and mark.. run and spread both ways etc

we have slugs who cant kick...
imagine standing under a juddy kick ....



or a lucas kick

armfield

carrazzo

curnow

bell :yikes:

mciness

garlett

frightening stuff and suggestion

we can watch other teams as much as we like...
the ones that tackle like freo
the ones that zip passes around hawthorn

and then there are the ones like us...

not everybody can do the good stuff....or everybody would be great

we cant even spread...


we dont tackle

and we cant kick the simple goals..

so now were going to play with polish??? :eek:

pleasse try and keep in mind where this football team is at right now...

you need balls and nerves of steel as well as work rate to do all that

were not renowned for that stuff...


We have all these good kicks in defence - Yarran, Watson, Walker, Tuohy - what do we get them to do? Bomb long. I wouldn't put McInness and Garlett in with the others you've mentioned.

We can't spread because they are told not to spread....just gather down the line and wait for the long bomb. Three you mentioned didn't even play.

Could Graham play instead of Robinson? He has bit more finesse to his game than Robinson. Robinson suits Mick's gameplan perfectly.

It's just amazing you have Yarran/Watson/Tuohy etc in defence but you don't use their strengths!

Menzel another very good kick but used as the sub.

Instead he went with Bell/Curnow/Ellard/McLean/Robinson - all 5 starting at Etihad!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Actually all those guys have deficiencies.
Yarrans kicking can be erratic and hes the best of them.
Tuohy is a better long kick than short kick.

And just to put this into perspective...why have we had around ninety tackles in the last 2 games???
because we bomb it ???

ok let me say this..... if you cant kick.. and we cant... do not kid yourself... they flake under pressure and that style of game YOURE talking about you cant have flakes..and we cant mark under pressure .. unless u totally believe those bludgers are always going to be running the opposition so ragged that they will all be uncontested marks...

why cant they do the simple skills like chase and tackle???

there is an art to kicking accurately and zipping through the air fast..and accurately.. and then taking a hit as u mark it

but tackling?
running to ways???

why cant they do the simple things but theyre going to suddenly grow balls.. when we know they flake under pressure???

not only we know.. but everybody knows... all teams know were chokers... but suddenly our carrazzos.. our curnows.. our lucas .. our mciness..juddys.. yarrans..garletts.. waites..bells..robinsons.. grahams... buckleys.. are going to grow a pair and play steel and galvanised footy???

when we do slow it down.. and we have over the past 5 years... i can remember it over and over... we @#$%&! it up
brisbane final...
the game simmo kicked out out of bounds...

these boys need a good stiff drink before they play a game.... theyre very nervy...and if you think we have the skill set for that i have to try not to laugh

all styles are good for the right teams.. and bad for the teams they dont suit
germany and italy played traditionally more defensive styles and won world cups
brazil dont defend
england like to hoof the ball forward.. they dont win many but theyre there...you wont see england playing a brazilian style.. and brazil cant execute a german style of game

there is no wrong and no right.. thats why u see so many styles

if youre technical you play a technical game..
if youre physical you play a physical style
if youre organised you play a defensive style with a counter attack(Greece 2004 euro)
if youre brazil you play with flair and attack....
if youre england and play these other styles you wont make the wc..

wanna know why????

because you cant!!

there is no right or wrong... just what suits u

u can draft towards improvement.....but that takes time.. in the meantime.. u go with what u have

ur just not going to be brazil if youre england... dont try it....

we cant play the style u like.. why? were not technical and were lazy...

yes its the in style.. till someone does a ross lyon and uses defence .. and then pig will tell us were not playing like freo....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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graham is going to save us now is he?


explain one thing...to me.. because i dont get this.. ive tried to bring it to your attention .. for example the swans game

why is it we dont work hard enough? our tackle rate tells that story...

if you are dreaming about us having fantastic skill sets...why dont you think about our effort on the ground???

one is good given and improved with a bunch of work
and one is just a zest for competition.. some fire in the belly

the sydney game is a classic example effes

why 39 tackles???

was the carrot to play prelim footy not big enough???..we had the opportunity to play prelim for the first time in 13 years.. and we made 39 tackles

now think about this.....

if we promised each player... we received permission from the afl...we can give each player $100,000 each.. if they won the game.. do you think the tackle count would have been 39 for that final???

think about that

youre hoping they will suddenly be polished... which is impossible... when in fact they cant do the possible.. and set a work ethic standard

when the opposition have the ball playing keepings off.. one realistoc way of getting the ball back is tackling...

but tackling is about desire and heart and thirst to succeed.

the moral of my story is this

before you want the almost impossible... how about improving the possible???

think about the sydney game and each player gets 100k to win.. do you think they would have played a game as lame as that.. and made 39 tackles??

prelim final wasnt a big enough carrot was it??? the money may have motivated some to chase and tackle and play with a fierce desire to win thats needed .

its carried onto this year... and u want POLISH!!!.. thats absurd!!!

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