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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:15 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Sydney Blue wrote:
Games are won and lost in the coaches box and training track
Ratten wasn't a pimple on a coaches bum - but we have gone backwards at a rate of knots since he left
Don't often agree with Eddie but he was right about Mick
Low disposal long kicking game is going to get cut up every time
Can't keep giving up the corridor and giving up possession - you need the ball in your hands to win games of footy and you need to close things down when a team gets a couple in a row to stop their momentum
We did it in the third couldnt do it in the second and last quarters


Thought we tried to use the corridor a fair bit last night.

Ratten's game style suited our players. Faced paced running football. Our players loved it because it was unaccountable. It just wouldn't take us to the top.

MM is trying to bring in a successful team defence first model ala Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney etc.

The issue is our players don't work hard enough for long enough. I have no issue with the coach or game style.

It's time the players took responsibility for these inept performances.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:15 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Rexy wrote:
Pro

Hairstyles and grooming at elite level


Con

We got smashed mentally and physically.


yes. they retreat so easily into themselves. the mental game needs work.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:17 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
If you think the current coach rather than the list and the previous coach is the cause of our problems, you are kidding yourself. We will get smashed if this list player group starts bringing it down the middle. They have not got the hardness or the disposal skills.
Malthouse turned over 25% of the list last year. He had his hands tied the year before. He and the club have been proactive
You can criticise him/the club for picking one too few at the draft table last year, for not giving guys like buckley enough game time. But he had a list with an old Judd, a knee wrecked Kruezer and no Fevola and 3 hopeless first rounders (Watson, Bootsma, Lucas) compare that to where we were in 2008. Last year Malthouse still won us a final
This is a complete rebuild, 2 years of drafting and another 2 of development & I am not sure Malthouse can do all that and keep us in the finals. He needs minimum 4 years (2016) before you judge




9 top 10 draft picks - nothing wrong with the list - a poor workman always blames his tools
444So whatabout the other 30 players on the list???

Who are our second and third rounders on this list?

Youre exactly the problem of this footy club... youre looking at the hole in the donut not the whole of he donut.
The delusional thinking is with supporters just as much as the club.
Second.... we wanna blame Collingwood people for where were at??? :screwy: How did they get here?????

thats just more delusional thinking...
as is the Tigers game from last seasons finals.

All the stuff we shouldnt be looking at to be serious.. we do look at.... all the things we should be looking at we dont .. we prefer to look away and elsewhere....

I really get the Essendon* supporter thinking just by watching our people....

scary!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Last edited by Synbad on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21538
Location: North of the border
ThePsychologist wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Games are won and lost in the coaches box and training track
Ratten wasn't a pimple on a coaches bum - but we have gone backwards at a rate of knots since he left
Don't often agree with Eddie but he was right about Mick
Low disposal long kicking game is going to get cut up every time
Can't keep giving up the corridor and giving up possession - you need the ball in your hands to win games of footy and you need to close things down when a team gets a couple in a row to stop their momentum
We did it in the third couldnt do it in the second and last quarters


Thought we tried to use the corridor a fair bit last night.

Ratten's game style suited our players. Faced paced running football. Our players loved it because it was unaccountable. It just wouldn't take us to the top.

MM is trying to bring in a successful team defence first model ala Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney etc.

The issue is our players don't work hard enough for long enough. I have no issue with the coach or game style.

It's time the players took responsibility for these inept performances.



So what your saying is that you have taken a girl to the dance who can only do the waltz but you now want here to start doing the samba and the tango but she keeps tripping over her feet

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:20 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Con

Not going anywhere with wildly inconsistent player performances week in week out.
It's been accepted way too long and it's still going on....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:21 am 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Sydney Blue wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Games are won and lost in the coaches box and training track
Ratten wasn't a pimple on a coaches bum - but we have gone backwards at a rate of knots since he left
Don't often agree with Eddie but he was right about Mick
Low disposal long kicking game is going to get cut up every time
Can't keep giving up the corridor and giving up possession - you need the ball in your hands to win games of footy and you need to close things down when a team gets a couple in a row to stop their momentum
We did it in the third couldnt do it in the second and last quarters


Thought we tried to use the corridor a fair bit last night.

Ratten's game style suited our players. Faced paced running football. Our players loved it because it was unaccountable. It just wouldn't take us to the top.

MM is trying to bring in a successful team defence first model ala Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney etc.

The issue is our players don't work hard enough for long enough. I have no issue with the coach or game style.

It's time the players took responsibility for these inept performances.



So what your saying is that you have taken a girl to the dance who can only do the waltz but you now want here to start doing the samba and the tango but she keeps tripping over her feet


I have no idea what that means? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:24 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21538
Location: North of the border
Synbad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
If you think the current coach rather than the list and the previous coach is the cause of our problems, you are kidding yourself. We will get smashed if this list player group starts bringing it down the middle. They have not got the hardness or the disposal skills.
Malthouse turned over 25% of the list last year. He had his hands tied the year before. He and the club have been proactive
You can criticise him/the club for picking one too few at the draft table last year, for not giving guys like buckley enough game time. But he had a list with an old Judd, a knee wrecked Kruezer and no Fevola and 3 hopeless first rounders (Watson, Bootsma, Lucas) compare that to where we were in 2008. Last year Malthouse still won us a final
This is a complete rebuild, 2 years of drafting and another 2 of development & I am not sure Malthouse can do all that and keep us in the finals. He needs minimum 4 years (2016) before you judge




9 top 10 draft picks - nothing wrong with the list - a poor workman always blames his tools
444So whatabout the other 30 players on the list???

Who are our second and third rounders on this list?

Youre exactly the problem of this footy club... youre looking at the hole in the donut not the whole of he donut.
The delusional thinking is with supporters just as much as the club.
Second.... we wanna blame Collingwood people for where were at??? :screwy: How did they get here?????

thats just more delusional thinking...
as is the Tigers game from last seasons finals.

All the stuff we shouldnt be looking at to be serious.. we do look at.... all the things we should be looking at we dont .. we prefer to look away and elsewhere....

I really get the Essendon** supporter thinking just by watching our people....

scary!


Lets wait and see how Roos goes at Melbourne - they are a shitful club - See if he can change their fortunes
They are at the lowest of lows - See how Roos goes

No 1 example in the world of how a coach can change things in Manchester United
The most successful club all round in the world - Fergie goes and there goes United
But if you were following united you would blame the administrators of the club

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:35 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: In the box.
Wait.. is Roos the only change they made there?
The board is the same correct???
From what i understand thats what youre saying isnt it???

Correct me if im wrong......

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:39 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 5338
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
9 top 10 draft picks - nothing wrong with the list - a poor workman always blames his tools


Doesn't mean jack if you haven't picked the right people.

Judd- Cant fault his output over the years, but he's as good as shot
Kreuz - injuries have ruined him
Miurph and Gibbs - Squibs
Thomas - ? oer his fitness at the moment
Yazz - inconsistent
Brock - slow as hell. Paid overs for him in any case.
Need I go on....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:39 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Sydney Blue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Michael Jezz wrote:
If you think the current coach rather than the list and the previous coach is the cause of our problems, you are kidding yourself. We will get smashed if this list player group starts bringing it down the middle. They have not got the hardness or the disposal skills.
Malthouse turned over 25% of the list last year. He had his hands tied the year before. He and the club have been proactive
You can criticise him/the club for picking one too few at the draft table last year, for not giving guys like buckley enough game time. But he had a list with an old Judd, a knee wrecked Kruezer and no Fevola and 3 hopeless first rounders (Watson, Bootsma, Lucas) compare that to where we were in 2008. Last year Malthouse still won us a final
This is a complete rebuild, 2 years of drafting and another 2 of development & I am not sure Malthouse can do all that and keep us in the finals. He needs minimum 4 years (2016) before you judge





9 top 10 draft picks - nothing wrong with the list - a poor workman always blames his tools
444So whatabout the other 30 players on the list???

Who are our second and third rounders on this list?

Youre exactly the problem of this footy club... youre looking at the hole in the donut not the whole of he donut.
The delusional thinking is with supporters just as much as the club.
Second.... we wanna blame Collingwood people for where were at??? :screwy: How did they get here?????

thats just more delusional thinking...
as is the Tigers game from last seasons finals.

All the stuff we shouldnt be looking at to be serious.. we do look at.... all the things we should be looking at we dont .. we prefer to look away and elsewhere....

I really get the Essendon*** supporter thinking just by watching our people....

scary!


Lets wait and see how Roos goes at Melbourne - they are a shitful club - See if he can change their fortunes
They are at the lowest of lows - See how Roos goes

No 1 example in the world of how a coach can change things in Manchester United
The most successful club all round in the world - Fergie goes and there goes United
But if you were following united you would blame the administrators of the club


I think youre very confused.
Ratten wasnt Fergie.
Malthouse isnt Moyes.


Think of it like this.... were more like Leeds United than Manchester United....
Club that is badly administered.

youre comparing carltons last 13 years to MUs??? :screwy:

not understanding your comparison here

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:41 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 5338
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
No 1 example in the world of how a coach can change things in Manchester United
The most successful club all round in the world - Fergie goes and there goes United
But if you were following united you would blame the administrators of the club


That would be a good example if Ratten had actually achieved something during his time here.
Unlike Moyes, Mick didn't exactly take over a quality side full of top class talent.
And in any case Mick matched the best that Ratts could do last year.

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Last edited by Dominator_7 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:43 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1845
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Sydney Blue wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Games are won and lost in the coaches box and training track
Ratten wasn't a pimple on a coaches bum - but we have gone backwards at a rate of knots since he left
Don't often agree with Eddie but he was right about Mick
Low disposal long kicking game is going to get cut up every time
Can't keep giving up the corridor and giving up possession - you need the ball in your hands to win games of footy and you need to close things down when a team gets a couple in a row to stop their momentum
We did it in the third couldnt do it in the second and last quarters


Thought we tried to use the corridor a fair bit last night.

Ratten's game style suited our players. Faced paced running football. Our players loved it because it was unaccountable. It just wouldn't take us to the top.

MM is trying to bring in a successful team defence first model ala Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney etc.

The issue is our players don't work hard enough for long enough. I have no issue with the coach or game style.

It's time the players took responsibility for these inept performances.



So what your saying is that you have taken a girl to the dance who can only do the waltz but you now want here to start doing the samba and the tango but she keeps tripping over her feet


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Great analogy.

The list needs to develop. Evolve or die. Those that can will succeed, those that can't will go. Not enough dance styles in the bag, not enough shuffles on the floor yet. By the end of this year we'll have another bunch to cut and an even clearer idea who we need to fill out the Can-Can.

Hoping most of the guys can nail the Samba and the Tango ASAP. Reckon the younger guys will have it sorted but it's the older players used to their ballroom blitz that are the concern...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:49 am 
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Robert Walls
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Ollie Wines played every game in his first year.

Any chance we can give Cripps a bit of a run?
See how his fitness holds up ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Lazy inconsistent...work ethic is nowhere near good enough...continual turnover of the list until discipline can be instilled into a fresh squad of players who truly want and believe they can succeed...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Bluey44 wrote:
Ollie Wines played every game in his first year.

Any chance we can give Cripps a bit of a run?
See how his fitness holds up ?

Ollie Wines is a very good footballer .. dont kid yourself.
Cripps is around 95 kilos... he cant run out a quarter and wont help on the spread .. not strong enough inside.
Youlll kill him if you even tried... he will never have a chance of a career.

This is not NAB cup....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:59 am 
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Ken Hunter
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They monstered our boys …. supplements program anyone? … :razz:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:49 pm
Posts: 45
Synbad wrote:
SnickerS wrote:
Dont even know where to start.
Apart from the laziness and mental weakness this list has so many holes in it its concerning.
WH really did a number on us. Even got our No1 picks wrong.

i dont think our early picks were wrong.... Murphy Kreuzer Kennedy and Gibbs are all solid footballers.
We got our drafting strategy wrong.... we have nothing from second third rounders.
Nothing.
We went for defenders when we needed midfielders.
We have too many holes because of this. A midfielder can play hbf or hff .. cant be said the other way.
We used to have an over abundance of hbfers.. most of whoch were culled.
Now we have an over abundance of one paced inside mids..
But the game is about the spread.

You need a couple.. you cant have ten.

we overcorrect too much in our drafting
We dont balance what we need.
We get a bunch of hbf... only 2 or 3 can play...
or a bunch of slow inside mids... good for stoppages.. not run
or a bunch of rucks ... were still struggling .. Capuano is a problem
or a bunch of talls all in the one hit... theyre all useless.. except hendo but we almost had bradshaw and rischetelli instead of henderson

But we dont take what we really need ....



OMG!!, i am actually agree with your most balance post, Synbad :-))))


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:20 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Scotty12000 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Games are won and lost in the coaches box and training track
Ratten wasn't a pimple on a coaches bum - but we have gone backwards at a rate of knots since he left
Don't often agree with Eddie but he was right about Mick
Low disposal long kicking game is going to get cut up every time
Can't keep giving up the corridor and giving up possession - you need the ball in your hands to win games of footy and you need to close things down when a team gets a couple in a row to stop their momentum
We did it in the third couldnt do it in the second and last quarters


Thought we tried to use the corridor a fair bit last night.

Ratten's game style suited our players. Faced paced running football. Our players loved it because it was unaccountable. It just wouldn't take us to the top.

MM is trying to bring in a successful team defence first model ala Freo, Hawthorn, Sydney etc.

The issue is our players don't work hard enough for long enough. I have no issue with the coach or game style.

It's time the players took responsibility for these inept performances.



So what your saying is that you have taken a girl to the dance who can only do the waltz but you now want here to start doing the samba and the tango but she keeps tripping over her feet


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Great analogy.

The list needs to develop. Evolve or die. Those that can will succeed, those that can't will go. Not enough dance styles in the bag, not enough shuffles on the floor yet. By the end of this year we'll have another bunch to cut and an even clearer idea who we need to fill out the Can-Can.


Really, how has that worked out for us so far?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 36
Location: Sunshine State
Not too bad until 3/4 time. 3 things..

1) turnovers: if I was coach Robbo would not play for Carlton again. Continually gives it straight back to the opposition. This exhausts our players cause we are always defending the fast break

2) goal kicking- may have been a completely different game if a few players made the most of some pretty easy shots. Nothing more deflating to the team than missing multiple opportunities at key times. Port grew an extra leg from those misses...

3) I've been on the fence here, but I def am moving off the Kruezer bandwagon.. Imagine cotchin in our midfield ATM... Virtually no loss in ruck stocks ( we'd still have Jacobs or Hampton), but have the best midfield in comp

Regardless, some good signs, excited about next week!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..it's been said elsewhere, but simply put.. ..too many cheats.. ..go and try field even half a team of 'finals footy' players.. ..don't just go by names and stats, but think of the fundamentals of what a great team plays by, and name our players that fit that mantra..

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