Agreed though there's not that many clubs who could say the same.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Judd excelled by carrying the team on his own while we were shite.
Most other Carlton greats had great teammates alongside them helping each other.
Judd is a product of the selfish culture of the Elliott/Pratt era.

It looks like they have recruited players to do this and we saw MM move players around last year.

I hope this does include Judd and he gets trialled at HB. I would like to see Gibbs play predominantly in the middle with Murphy and Cachia/McLean and Cripps when he is ready play that extractor role. I don't know if it will work with Judd played back (I don't think he excels forward) but I would like to see it trialled to give others a chance to develop. I don't see the point in letting Judd play out his time predominantly in the midfield, despite the fact that he excels at it, and not let others develop and have Judd's days cut short by being a battering ram.

Judd is a ball winner. Why the hell would you play him back? Rotate him forward for a rest, otherwise play him in the guts.

In an era of salary cap and draft you will carry a side by yourself if you're traded for three first round picks and over a million a year.

It goes hand in hand.
Hard to believe?

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Only for the reasons I stated. I think he is holding others back from developing and I don't think he is too good forward.
He is great in the midfield no doubt but I would rather him spend 5 mins a quarter than all his time there. I would like to see him trialled back as I think he could set it up from down back and in my opinion is a better field kick than kick for goal. By him playing back it would also free up Walker and/or Simpson to play in middle which would provide spread. Worth a trial surely?

I was all for recruiting Judd and nothing has changed my mind. When we got him we were pathetic. He brought a new level of professionalism to the club and he has given his best day in day out. He has been a great example to others at the club. He has also carried us in numerous games and made us look better than what we actually were.

If you are to be critical it is that we didn't support him with better coaching, development and recruiting.

Judd was only one piece in the puzzle. Unfortunately we didn't find many of the others.

I can't be critical of him at all. There are much bigger issues over the past 5-10 years at the club than Judd.

As for where he plays it has to be in the middle. He is as good as most in winning inside ball and he can still impose himself on a game. With a little support he can still be a very influential player.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

This thread is now dominated by Judd symbolic of the club. I said I didn't like the trade 5 years ago .where are we now as a club.We are average as a team. Bottom line and will always be bottom line for me inevery thread I post. The board must go because ultimately their responsible for where we are as a club on an off the field

Where were we 10 years ago?

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dane's trolling again

These comments are spot on.

The board made many stupid decisions, but have at least now shown some balls by getting Mick and allowing him to bring in the team (both on and off field) to get the job done. I'm sure the board blocked the trade of Fev early because they thought we desperately needed him. But he was our #1 problem. If anything, the club let Judd down - not the other way around.

I like our team - it has what it takes to be top 4 or 5. Injuries will play a part in where we finish, but at least now our next 8-10 players look capable of giving the support we need.

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end of message

Sorry for the late reply I have been away (I know this wasn't particularly addressed to me, I just wanted to reply to the comment I made). I agree, he is a great ball winner and I would still like to see him rotate through there, just not predominantly and to allow others to develop. In the main case Gibbs. I thought he played the best I had seen him in the middle when Judd was injured with his knee last year, he even went in and got it (I would also like to see Cachia/McLean and Cripps take this on).
I could be wrong and probably are as this isn't the popular view, but it seems others are intimidated by Judd, through not fault of his own or theirs but if he is there others tend to hang back and allow him to do what it is he does best. I would just like to see others develop this skill and he add another string to his bow. I personally don't like him forward and would like to see him set it up and attack from down back. He could also direct a lot of players as well. This has worked with Mitchell and McVeigh and even Bartel, who are all ball winners and I am not saying that it will automatically happen with Judd but I would like to see it trialled. Just an opinion. I rate him and always have, I would just like to see him stick around a bit longer and getting smashed in the midfield week in, week out is going to bring about the end quicker than pulling back so to speak.

A post that I agree with 100%.

Focus should be on the club not Judd. He's done and is doing his job.

The 2 way running is debatable and imo is coach driven.
No way Judd would ignore coaches instructions.
There's more than meets the eye...imo

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Boyd, Cameron and Patton all targets in the forwardline for GWS.
They can run and are mobile, jump and mark, and have skills to win games off their own boot.

IMO we have to cover them with 3 talls, and have a cohesive backline with plenty of pace to get the ball out of there quick and hurt them the other way...and of course a supportive midfield in defense...and dominating around the ground.

Who are our options in order of height...

Henderson
Watson
Giles (undeveloped)
Waite
Everitt
Jamison
White
McIness
McInnes

I dont think its worth risking 2 tall defenders against the Sydney teams let alone other teams who have 3 tall targets in the forwardline.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

A fair bit of negativity here but I think we are in for a good season - second year under Mick should be better after the first year of adjustment -demonstrated at the end of last season that we were in the top 6 and should improve from there - improvement should come from the likes of tuohy lucas menzel graham Watson yarran and in particular gibbs and kreuzer - throw in Thomas Docherty and everitt as hopefully starting 22 - a more flexible team with those 3 and more depth- a more settle forward line hopefully with Henderson at chf with waite and levi as additional talls


Having said that Im an old sugarcoater from way back cant help it Go Blues

Tennis will be over soon and then we will be into it -cant wait

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

I get so angry when I read posts like these
Judd was recruited because after 6 years at the bottom of the ladder it was thought the playing group needed an example, a great player a form of leadership.
The club needed immediate results to improve its income stream.
Recruiting and the lack of development of most second picks and gibbs and Kreuzer injury is more the issue
Your arguement falls down because you believe less is more. Less Judd, Less Edelsten, Less Pratt would result in Carlton doing better. That is not true. Less is not more
Less of them is not the cause of our problems. They all contributed in major ways. If there were more of the missing elements, some of which have been added to the mix such as: recruitment, worthy president, young board members player development working with the Judd, Pratt, Edelsten factor we may be top 4. I just get sick of scapegoating positive contributors to the club

I'd add To that.

Look at it another way - take their contributions away and where are we?

It's an impossible debate.

What would have happened if X didn't happen. If we'd kept 3, 20 and Kennedy would we be better off than if we'd picked up Judd and the other bloke (sorry Dennis)?

Based on our other recruiting efforts who knows?

What I can say is that I believe the club has a slight (and I mean slight) problem with behaving like a two bit hooker at the moment. Any organisation willing to allow the mainstream media to focus on a [REDACTED] like Edelsten sitting in the coach's box is not controlling their environment.

That's just a lack of leadership. And that's why having a lame duck half-wit as a president is not good for the club.

Good clubs control their environments.

That's what we need to learn to do again.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Agree with that.

It is ironic though. The dumb half wit president most refer to - is the same fella 'bought in' by another so called dumb half wit president - being largely responsible for 2 flags as a player.

He is not right as president and we need to make change.

Nontheless, Very ironic for all of us as 'modern day football experts'

Actually you just answered your own dilemma
Having less.. (a few names on and off the field and relying on those means you dont have whats required in the modern age)
More quality
When you rely on the few and not the greater pool of Carlton .. youll fall down and be average.
When you put all of your eggs in the Chris Judd basket.. you will only rach the status of mediocre.
Hey thats where were at right now isnt it? the Pratts the Judds the Edelstens.. were mediocre!!

Pratts/ Sticks/ etc dont allow new blood in... why?.. because they have a sense of 'ownership ' of the club... why do they have a sense of ownership of the club??.. because they pumped in money.
do you sit comfortably with us naming the cafe and the pool after a questionable publicity seeking individual.. over say a footballer who deserves the greatness recognition???

We have the single mothers mentality... the benefactors will alays give us enough to survive.. we can dream... wed like a ferrari.. wed like to move out of dandenong ministry of housing estates... but its never going to happen.
We can dream ... but the true relentless ambition of creating a serious.. honest club is extinguished.
Why? because were mentally soft .. and you can see that in the supporters!!!.. happy to accept the crumbs of what the competition has to offer (Richmond elim final.. a chris judd brownlow...pich a personality from collingwood)... we can exxcel as much as we like in those areas.. it doesnt make us a succesful, honest and 'clubby' footy club...
All we are is a club that has lost its soul and way.. following benefactors(charity) unable to stand up for ourselves..unable to forge a path into being seen as a serious club... were run by benefactors.. the mere whisper that these guys might leave us.. and we tremble at the knees like a sissy.

You know why???.. we have no confidence.. no faith in ourselves.. having been through over a decade with idiots in charge we now have 'battered wives syndrome'... cant move on from our cross between singles mother pensiomdom and battered wives syndrome.
Were not really proud as a CLUB are we???

i dont mind the club being run by benefactors if they bought it and ran it as a private business.
But its a club.... were treated like shit and in the shadows a couple of billionaires pull the strings.. the rest of us scared if they go away.
We have no pride!!!..

yes youre right..we need more not less.. at the moment we have the less mentality

you just cant see it...

i suppose youre shit scared what might happen to this great club if sticks edelsten bruce and jeannie leave??

it would just never be able to stand up for itself..

believe it or not.. these people and mathieson have been around the club for a decade...judd only his seventh year.. and plummeting like a rock

that hasnt stopped us from being mediocre.. firing on half cylinders.

so what makes u think they will fix this???..

Oh! i know a fear... and some cowering...

oh !!! i know!!!.. youre satisfied and proud of their mediocre result??

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.