List Management 2013 - changes by Wed 18/9

blueboys101 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 327

whats the go with laidler and duigan? i was under the impression that if you didn't get delisted with the first delisting's you would have to stay on the list.

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17219

Before you start rolling your eyes at things that I didnt even suggest...It was a 3-year, $1.3 million contract with the biggest slice in the final year. That answer your question? No planning. No idea.

camel · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:29 am

Humpers wrote:

Donstuie wrote:

Carlton is the freecell player that jumps on all the obvious moves from the start, getting a few right in a row before running into an unwinnable position they can't escape from (unless they go back to the start). Others (such as Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong etc) go for the less obvious choices at the start, less concerned with making moves happen than they are about getting to the top of those piles, piece by piece. They do this by keeping their deck balanced, and not being afraid to think out of the box.

Anyway, just thought I'd share, as everytime I play this game and get stuck, my mind turns to Carlton's list management strategy :razz:

Carlton doesn't play freecell - we do snakes and ladders instead.

That's funny, I thought we only did snakes and snakes.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:36 am

The proof is always in the pudding.
Lets wait and see.

I think we did ok. But we also didnt do what we set out to do.Therefore it was unsuccesul to what our objectives are.
Its succesful on where we were last year.
But every club will improve.

Lets just wait and see.

xxxxx to all my friends

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

camelboy wrote:

Humpers wrote:

Donstuie wrote:

Carlton is the freecell player that jumps on all the obvious moves from the start, getting a few right in a row before running into an unwinnable position they can't escape from (unless they go back to the start). Others (such as Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong etc) go for the less obvious choices at the start, less concerned with making moves happen than they are about getting to the top of those piles, piece by piece. They do this by keeping their deck balanced, and not being afraid to think out of the box.

Anyway, just thought I'd share, as everytime I play this game and get stuck, my mind turns to Carlton's list management strategy :razz:

Carlton doesn't play freecell - we do snakes and ladders instead.

That's funny, I thought we only did sneaks and leakers.

EFA

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7205

Daisy's contract with his ankle is the only concern for me. Best part of 2 years with no continuity in the game. He'll have serious rust, to be sure.

Best case; If his ankle holds up and returns to 2010 form, we're ahead. Worst case; If Daisy turns into another injury prone version of Waite clogging the list and maxing out the cap, we'll be back in the wilderness faster than you can say, Bear Grylls gave himself an enema on a raft and then drank it.

The other two are further along the developmental path or just flat out more talented than McInnes, White, Duigan, Armfield and Boots (players imo who they'll be competing for a spot in the 22 with). So we've upgraded our list and gave up very little in the process.

Betts will be missed, but in saying that he's not worth what Adelaide paid him, ands imo he's physically peaked as a footy player.

I'd give us a 7 out of 10, when last year at this time we were a zero. We laid goose eggs.

If we draft Hartung and he's a beauty (or another hard running mid who's a beauty), we'll score an 8 for the offseason.

gerry atric · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am **Posts:** 2125

I guess you could look at it as Betts out for Thomas in - Betts is a really good small forward but we have two others - tho I think Eddie was the best of them. A fit Thomas is a gun mid, so if he has got over his ankle probs then we are ahead with this one, Eddie tho, despite an ordinary 2013 has been a terrific player for us.

Everitt and Hampson is in effect a swap. We had too many rucks. Everitt hasn't established himself at two other clubs, has talent but is a new edition of either Laidler or Duigan, more talented but perhaps not as focussed. Thought we might get a bot more for Hammo as a first ruck. even a swap of first and second rounders with Tiges to move us a spot or two up. Anyway good luck to Hammo, I think he can be a good first ruck. Don't judge his ruck capacity on his form as a full fwd.

Docherty seems a good get. If the trade period proved anything it is that the sides in non footy states need a retention allowance above the salary cap, otherwise don't have those teams. The Lions have been decimated and the same will happen to GWS as their young talent comes out of contract.

If we have got Thomas of 2010/11 then he is a star and will fill the void left as Judd ages. We still are short a key forward or two, but unless we wanted to put Buddy on a 10 year deal, or try and get Crameri or Gumby we weren't going to get one.

The issue is not trading it is how well we can draft and develop. How many players from the 2008-2011 drafts are likely to be long term effective additions to the team?

Cool Runnings · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:05 am **Posts:** 173

Synbad wrote:

The proof is always in the pudding.
Lets wait and see.

I think we did ok. But we also didnt do what we set out to do.Therefore it was unsuccesul to what our objectives are.
Its succesful on where we were last year.
But every club will improve.

Lets just wait and see.

xxxxx to all my friends

I agree, we did ok considering how hamstrung we were with salary cap constraints and the fact our players have no value. However we didn't achieve what we set out to which will again mean 2014 will be much the same.

We need to focus our first pick on a mid, while we injected some run into the side we are still way behind the top sides in this area. Again games are won in the midfield, and hard run both ways and ability to get your hands on the footy the key. We need to start thinking and planning 3 years ahead, and we need to start replacing our aging midfield now.

The fact that we don't have talented young KPP (other than hendo) particularly a forward to replace waite, should have been addressed years ago. Again poor recruiting and player development. And also another example of our poor forward planning, which the top sides are light years ahead of us in that area.

Until things change at the top we are so far off our next flag.

AGRO · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:21 am

Cool Runnings wrote:

Synbad wrote:

The proof is always in the pudding.
Lets wait and see.

I think we did ok. But we also didnt do what we set out to do.Therefore it was unsuccesul to what our objectives are.
Its succesful on where we were last year.
But every club will improve.

Lets just wait and see.

xxxxx to all my friends

I agree, we did ok considering how hamstrung we were with salary cap constraints and the fact our players have no value. However we didn't achieve what we set out to which will again mean 2014 will be much the same.

We need to focus our first pick on a mid, while we injected some run into the side we are still way behind the top sides in this area. Again games are won in the midfield, and hard run both ways and ability to get your hands on the footy the key. We need to start thinking and planning 3 years ahead, and we need to start replacing our aging midfield now.

The fact that we don't have talented young KPP (other than hendo) particularly a forward to replace waite, should have been addressed years ago. Again poor recruiting and player development. And also another example of our poor forward planning, which the top sides are light years ahead of us in that area.

Until things change at the top we are so far off our next flag.

Well it was addressed, albeit in spectacularly incompetent fashion. :wink:

doofdoof · **Joined:** Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm **Posts:** 2251

Synbad wrote:

The proof is always in the pudding.
Lets wait and see.

I think we did ok. But we also didnt do what we set out to do.Therefore it was unsuccesul to what our objectives are.
Its succesful on where we were last year.
But every club will improve.

Lets just wait and see.

xxxxx to all my friends

almost every club

Essendon* wont :thumbsup:

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2759

I am pretty happy with our ins/outs equation.
I hope our ins will have at least partially addressed once of the most frustrating elements of our game which probably cost us 2-3 games: terrible disposal. And I am not just talking about wayward kicks or handballs. The number of times that the kick/handball did reach hither target but as a half volley or handball at ankle/knee level or forced the recipient to stop to receive rather than continue in stride really pissed me off. The number of times you could see the whole field open up only to be undermined by a slightly off handball was more than I could bear.
After poor intensity and attitude, this was my biggest gripe for the year.
I am hoping that 3 first round picks will at least have talent and good skills.
Now it is up to MM and the rest of the boys to get the best out of this talent.

Molly · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:13 pm

I think it was Rexy who wrote that if you can't develop players you're stuck in the football equivalent of quicksand.

The sad fact is we couldn't offload any of our first round draft picks, while we saw a bidding competition for a guy like Brendon Savage who was originally taken with a pick in the 80's.

And while I'm hopeful of good footy from Docherty and Everitt, the reality is that it continues our decade long pursuit of a half back flanker. It's a list which includes Russell, Benjamin, Bower, Gibbs, Davies, Duigan, Bootsma, Teague, Laidler, Yarran, Walker, Scotland, and Anderson. There are some good names in that list, but it's embarrassing how many times we've tried to get the right player for that position and had little success.

So overall the three players we acquired are guys I think will improve our list. But until we can develop draftees to a certain quality we'll be destined to struggle.

teagueyubeauty · **Joined:** Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am **Posts:** 6450

If we can get Gibbs and Walker in the guts/forward we'll be extremely dangerous.

It would be nice for a change for the majority if our best 22 to have near career best years, we have plenty of talent it's just that we can't get them playing near their best for the majority of a season.

Consistency has been a major issue for 6 years.

Eddie · **Joined:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:06 pm **Posts:** 1098

Another one who is pretty happy with our trade period.
I am especially happy with Docherty, from all accounts we got him pretty cheap and he will be a good player.
Losing Betts was disappointing but i guess we had to let someone go to bring Thomas in.
Time will tell.

Dominator_7 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:57 pm

Having another 'swingman' in Everitt to add to Waite, Walker and Hendo gives us great unpredictability.
All 4 capable of being both damaging forwards, and rock solid defenders on their day.
Come to think of it, we re starting to see the makings of a very versatile team under Mick, with most players showing that they re capable of playing effectively in more then one position.

Pafloyul · **Joined:** Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm **Posts:** 4842

Molly wrote:

I think it was Rexy who wrote that if you can't develop players you're stuck in the football equivalent of quicksand.

The sad fact is we couldn't offload any of our first round draft picks, while we saw a bidding competition for a guy like Brendon Savage who was originally taken with a pick in the 80's.

And while I'm hopeful of good footy from Docherty and Everitt, the reality is that it continues our decade long pursuit of a half back flanker. It's a list which includes Russell, Benjamin, Bower, Gibbs, Davies, Duigan, Bootsma, Teague, Laidler, Yarran, Walker, Scotland, and Anderson. There are some good names in that list, but it's embarrassing how many times we've tried to get the right player for that position and had little success.

So overall the three players we acquired are guys I think will improve our list. But until we can develop draftees to a certain quality we'll be destined to struggle.

You forgot O'keeffe. I don't think we were necessarily trying for HBFs, they were just what we got by default because of the way we identify talent. I don't think finding 'dependable' man-boys with midrange to latish picks gives you a lot to develop.

ColourMan · **Joined:** Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am **Posts:** 1291

Stamos wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

And as foe Greg Swann...no - havent been in a room with Greg before, but remember he began his distinguished career in list management by signing Jarrad Waite to a 3-year deal.

I'm sick of this being used as an example of poor list management.
You guys all realise that because he was given 3 years, he is actually using less salary cap space than he would if we only gave him 2? His old contract qualified under previous Veterans List rules, so we are getting a 50% saving. If we gave him 2, and another contract this year, we'd only save $112,500.

Or are you suggesting that Waite should have been delisted if not for his contract? :roll:

Now the administration and List Management of the club may be a long way from perfect, but this is not one of the examples where they have stuffed up.

How about giving Carazzo three years on significant coin? He turns 30 in Dec and is signed up until the end of 2015...

CarltonRepublic · **Joined:** Sun May 01, 2005 4:12 pm **Posts:** 51

Having a quick look at our list we have 38 players on it (includes 3 rookies). So only 6 positions left ( 3 rookie positions). Presuming we go with 38 onmain list and 6 rookies again. You'd think Curnow may get upgraded, maybe Bell but lets just say 1 upgrade. So at the moment we have 2 draft picks and 4 rookie draft picks.
You'd think we'd have atleast 4 picks in the national draft so atleast 2 more players to go. Laidler gone. Picking up Everitt would mean Duigan and/or White aswell. Ellard maybe on the chopping board aswell. I think all 4 may go and you will see one of the biggest list changes ever.
Who else should go?

emtwenty · **Joined:** Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 7074

ColourMan wrote:

Stamos wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

And as foe Greg Swann...no - havent been in a room with Greg before, but remember he began his distinguished career in list management by signing Jarrad Waite to a 3-year deal.

I'm sick of this being used as an example of poor list management.
You guys all realise that because he was given 3 years, he is actually using less salary cap space than he would if we only gave him 2? His old contract qualified under previous Veterans List rules, so we are getting a 50% saving. If we gave him 2, and another contract this year, we'd only save $112,500.

Or are you suggesting that Waite should have been delisted if not for his contract? :roll:

Now the administration and List Management of the club may be a long way from perfect, but this is not one of the examples where they have stuffed up.

How about giving Carazzo three years on significant coin? He turns 30 in Dec and is signed up until the end of 2015...

He actually signed a 2 year deal. He was contracted until the end of this year & signed a new deal @ the beginning of the season.

ColourMan · **Joined:** Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am **Posts:** 1291

emtwenty wrote:

ColourMan wrote:

Stamos wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

And as foe Greg Swann...no - havent been in a room with Greg before, but remember he began his distinguished career in list management by signing Jarrad Waite to a 3-year deal.

I'm sick of this being used as an example of poor list management.
You guys all realise that because he was given 3 years, he is actually using less salary cap space than he would if we only gave him 2? His old contract qualified under previous Veterans List rules, so we are getting a 50% saving. If we gave him 2, and another contract this year, we'd only save $112,500.

Or are you suggesting that Waite should have been delisted if not for his contract? :roll:

Now the administration and List Management of the club may be a long way from perfect, but this is not one of the examples where they have stuffed up.

How about giving Carazzo three years on significant coin? He turns 30 in Dec and is signed up until the end of 2015...

He actually signed a 2 year deal. He was contracted until the end of this year & signed a new deal @ the beginning of the season.

A contract extension; the net result being prior to the commencement of the 2013 season, Andrew was contracted for the following three seasons... until the end of 2015 on significant money! No wonder our salary cap is stuffed!!!

List Management 2013 - changes by Wed 18/9

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