You mean take a risk like landing daisy thomas

Get over your obsession with daisy Thomas! He ain't the panacea that will bring us into the top 4. You need to get more than Thomas to rise another level, like a key fwd and a couple more mids!

_________________
For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

Well Carlton missed out on Paul Chapman - if the club hadn't paid overs for players such as Jarrad Waite they might have had room in the cap to get a player like Chapman, but now he is an Essendon* player. Let's say they shaved $50,000 off the Daisy Thomas contract and $100,000 off Waite's, $50,000 off Carazzo's - they might have had enough left over to get him...but that is all history now.

Oh well, this is where poor contract negotiations comes back to bite you.

But even so paying Chapman that 600k for the next 2 years we could in turn miss the next target, possibly lose someone to FA next year or the year after, or fall short of attracting an FA in the next 2 year's.

Can acknowledge recent poor list management, but that's no reason to continue to make the same mistakes.

_________________
"They're [REDACTED]'

Fair point...I guess I just have a very high opinion of Chapman as a footballer and that colours my judgements.

He has a better record in finals than any player on Carlton's list -even including Judd with West Coast/Carlton.

Exactly.

All the club ever seems to pull off is the predictable. It's almost like we are under constant peer pressure. Not one of our trade moves have inspired swagger in the last 10 years. Even the Judd trade left us feeling hollow after losing JK.

It seems the only unpredictable moves we make are at the draft. "Gee, didn't expect the Blues to pick that spud!"

I'm over it.

I'll hope like hell the club pull something off that puts me back in my box.
At this stage it's highly doubtful.

_________________
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

Yes we may be hamstrung by the TPP now but theres nothing to stop us back ending contracts or 'renegotiating" with some current players.
If Waite and Judd will be gone or on substantially downgraded contracts in 2015, there's nothing stopping us backloading a contract for a new player until then.
There's always a way to navigate the system.

I'd suggest our problem is a) we're not the attractive proposition we were years ago and b) we have people bereft of ideas running the club and football department.
Its the reality of contemporary Carlton. We spent so much time telling everyone how good we were, we didnt notice that everyone else going past us.
We've become an average also-ran in most respects. Years ago players wanted to come to Carlton because it was a club built on success and achievement.
They would take less money to be a part of team and club success.

Now, we have to accept that players are no more inclined to join us than any other club unless we come up with more $$$$$$. Thats the reality IMHO.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think you are spot on BV.
Apart from throwing a bucket load of cash at someone, what would attract a player to us? Maybe Malthouse? We don`t stand for anything.
I`ll bet we will be in exactly the same position again next year. Nothing sustainable about us.

Agree BV need to be successful /progressive to attract the best talent and even better than that if we want them for less
Seems from some posters hysteria over others getting dal pods chapman and Vince
Do any really appeal given their age and what they are asking
If we get Thomas and Docherty in the trade period and out goes betts Hampson and laidler in trades and we keep our first and second round pick then that is pretty good
Reservation still is in respect to our KPP stocks in particular a key forward
Not much around white McKernan maybe
Need to be more successful developing them if we go into draft and get them this time

I am actually really concerned about the direction we are heading. I think our List Management is reactive and archaic.

It is obvious to most we have not turned over enough players or recruited well enough.

This year we get Thomas and pay overs for him. At his best he is a top class player but he is 27 next season and hasn't played much in the last 2 years. We will get Docherty for around pick 33 and will be handy and is the right age but is no star.

We also lost Betts for nothing because we got Thomas for nothing and handed Collingwood Pick 11.

We have been shopping around Lucas, Casboult, Laidler, Bootsma, Garlett & Yarran with little or no interest. Pick 32 for Hampson was a fair deal IMO. Unless we can move one of these we wont be doing much else.

Look at some of the other clubs and how they top up or re generate.

Collingwood will lose Thomas & Shaw but get pick 11 and Adams. They will also get White & Karnezis with later picks. For the second year in a row they will have two picks inside the Top 20. They are gold. Last year they got Grundy & Kennedy. This year will be just as good plus Adams is a star with 10 years ahead of him.

Hawthorn after winning a Premiership go out and trade Pick 17 and Savage for McEvoy. He is a top flight ruckman for the next 10 years and coming into his prime. He will be supported by Hale & Ceglar, both recruited from other clubs!

Sydney go and get Buddy. Smart from several angles.

Freo will go and get Sylvia & Gumbleton.

The difference is these clubs plan and do deals and they can afford them!!

Even St Kilda, realising they are crap trade good players (McEvoy, Dal Santo through FA) to get picks because they need depth and class. A bit like us. They are targeting 4-5 picks in the top 25 in this years draft. They will also get Bruce & Delaney with late picks. IMO that is smart.

North have been stockpiling for 3-4 years and will now add Dal Santo. Watch out in 2014.


I am told GWS are keen to trade Pick 2, even after they got Mumford with pick 35!

If I was us I would be trying to get it. Trade Kruezer or Gibbs. Both very good players but neither is Elite and are in their prime. No one should be off limits. Even a deal incorporating a few of Walker, Jamison, Warnock, Garlett, Bootsma or Yarran should be considered.

We have pick 13 at the moment. Our next is around 32? That is a lottery. We need early picks. If we could get pick 2 and maybe another inside 20 that would be a win. I hope we can.

Things need to change or we will be stuck in no mans land for a while. I have tried to be positive but what I see worries me as a supporter.

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

spot on

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Yep. Though it is very sobering.

The sad reality is we are a mediocre club. On and off field. I desperately wish it wasn't the case but it is.

Doesn't appear to be any accountability with the key decision makers or personnel at the club either. While this is the case, we will get further and further away from #17.

We desperately need change and reinvigoration. From board level down.

_________________
We are on our way back...

I agree with the psycho views. Thomas was a easy deal (money), we are lucky that doc has chosen carlton so that again is another easy ball get.ALL our recruiting dept are showing much ,now compare to other teams and thats why psychologist is correct.

im starting to get concerned were stagnating .......

actually stagnating isnt too bad... it means were no longer sinking....

dont worry ... the team that brought us here.... (ie the circle of trust) will lead us out of this....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Agree...and we've tried...but contracted players don't want to move and/or there's little or no interest in our tradeable players because we haven't recruited or developed them properly. It's bad list management (blame McKay and Swann), bad recruiting (blame Hughes and Ratten) and bad development (blame Ratten and co).

blame president sticks and the board...
theyre all responsible to the board
the directors set the tone by providing direction.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

That's the thing. Who wants Carlton to fluctuate in the middle two-thirds of the ladder for the next 35 years without winning a premiership, or two, along the way? Carlton's list management these days seems to take the idea that subsisting is synonymous with thriving. We then wonder what is going wrong when we can't get things to happen.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Yeah...there's things I'm blaming them for and things I'm not. I'll blame the CEO for still having Wayne Hughes employed though, and for lack of coaches who can genuinely develop young players.

That's another point. Look at North, professionally run and apparently less money than us. Have appointed Brown, Walsh & Tudor over the last few weeks to the football department. Have also employed Ling to work with their leaders on a part time basis.

As Barrassi once said "That's class"


as a thought. would most supporters be happier with:

Thomas, Docherty & Pick 13 & 33 and losing Hampson

or

Pick 2 (Aish) Pick 12 (Bontmepelli) Pick 20 (Hartung) Docherty, Bruce & 33, not giving Collingwood Pick 11 and losing Hampson, Kruezer, Walker & Yarran for example?

and then continue down a similar path for the next 2 years.

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

And others move just for the good-will.

We don't stand for anything? Sounds like a tough phrase but what does that mean?

What do Richmond stand for? Essendon*? Fremantle?
What did Geelong stand for only 7 years ago? Handbags maybe?
Sydney 8 years ago?

If so many of you know that nothing is going to change, then give up. Seriously. Go follow Melbourne Victory or something, or anything.
Why can't people just talk football instead of the constant putting down and whining? Is this the way you speak about your partners? It is, isn't it?