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Should we have secured Malthouse from 2013 or taken the punt on Roos' availability from 2014?
Malthouse 77%  77%  [ 48 ]
Roos 23%  23%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 62
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 Post subject: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:55 am 
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Serge Silvagni

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MAlthouse


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 Post subject: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:56 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
Posts: 942
moshe25 wrote:
Kouta wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
The one thing I love about Roos is his apparent ability to create great people around him. Compare Lyon and Longmire to Neeld and Watters.

Wayne Brittain can take credit for half of Ross Lyon's development. :wink: :razz:

McKenna, Brad Scott and Buckley are travelling OK after working with Malthouse.

Pfft.

McKenna? My grandmother could coach Garry Ablett plus 27 top ten picks.

Brad Scott? Sounds intelligent, but so did Tim Watson. How many 55 point leads at three quarter time can you give up?

Buckley? Surely you jest?

I quite like Mick. But as a breeder and developer of good successors, he's a long second to Roos.

Beg to differ as a breeder, his work with the pies was second to none


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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I don't like Roos' quick-fix mentality, pure and simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:54 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..i don't like the fact that they're gonna pick the successor [or even the candidates] right from the get go.. ..Dee's need a lot of work, on and off field,, i would think everyone needs time in the gig, before organising the successor.. ..i think the idea is good, wanting to implement things right away a bit too early..

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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:19 am 
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Garry Crane
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hustla wrote:
Lyon served under Parkin didn't he? So did woosha.



Ross Lyon was a very experienced assistant coach before joining Roos at the Swans:

1996 - 1999 Assistant Coach at Richmond
2000 - 2003 Assistant Coach at Carlton


I would suggest that Lyon had more to do with making Roos as a coach than the other way around.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Gab wrote:
hustla wrote:
Lyon served under Parkin didn't he? So did woosha.



Ross Lyon was a very experienced assistant coach before joining Roos at the Swans:

1996 - 1999 Assistant Coach at Richmond
2000 - 2003 Assistant Coach at Carlton


I would suggest that Lyon had more to do with making Roos as a coach than the other way around.

Yes, he would've learnt a lot from Richmond in the late 90s and Carlton in the early 2000s.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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moshe25 wrote:
Gab wrote:
hustla wrote:
Lyon served under Parkin didn't he? So did woosha.



Ross Lyon was a very experienced assistant coach before joining Roos at the Swans:

1996 - 1999 Assistant Coach at Richmond
2000 - 2003 Assistant Coach at Carlton


I would suggest that Lyon had more to do with making Roos as a coach than the other way around.

Yes, he would've learnt a lot from Richmond in the late 90s and Carlton in the early 2000s.

He would have just sat in the stands and listened to his walkman in those years?

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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
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Location: South Yarra
Pafloyul wrote:
I don't like Roos' quick-fix mentality, pure and simple.


This mentality is flawed unless you have a great system, list management and culture. If you do, then you have a huge advantage over the competition. Mid-level picks for the likes of J Kennedy, Mumford, McGlynn etc is an exceptional outcome. Plug and play rather than waiting 3 years to see if a kid can cut it, and keep first rounders for elite young talent is a big win.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Garry Crane
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moshe25 wrote:
Gab wrote:
hustla wrote:
Lyon served under Parkin didn't he? So did woosha.



Ross Lyon was a very experienced assistant coach before joining Roos at the Swans:

1996 - 1999 Assistant Coach at Richmond
2000 - 2003 Assistant Coach at Carlton


I would suggest that Lyon had more to do with making Roos as a coach than the other way around.

Yes, he would've learnt a lot from Richmond in the late 90s and Carlton in the early 2000s.



He was an assistant to Walls at Richmond and Parkin at Carlton, i would suggest he would have learnt plenty from those two.


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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4842
aramari wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
I don't like Roos' quick-fix mentality, pure and simple.


This mentality is flawed unless you have a great system, list management and culture. If you do, then you have a huge advantage over the competition. Mid-level picks for the likes of J Kennedy, Mumford, McGlynn etc is an exceptional outcome. Plug and play rather than waiting 3 years to see if a kid can cut it, and keep first rounders for elite young talent is a big win.


Roos's thinking at it's worst goes beyond a middling pick for the likes of Kennedy every now and then. At any rate, they obviously did their homework on that player and pretty much realised he could play as a starting midfielder if given the opportunity.

The Jury is still out whether Sydney have the balance right and Victorian clubs are not in a position to emulate Sydney's culture. Who is to say Roos would adjust his outlook to suit each club and different circumstances? You would have to treat everything as a 'case by case' scenario and not simply say 'we want to trade our second round pick for a player'. There is also a lot of difference between a wooden spooner's second round draft pick and a premiership sides one. I think the evidence suggests that Roos is of the old school, even if a superior example of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Pafloyul wrote:
aramari wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
I don't like Roos' quick-fix mentality, pure and simple.


This mentality is flawed unless you have a great system, list management and culture. If you do, then you have a huge advantage over the competition. Mid-level picks for the likes of J Kennedy, Mumford, McGlynn etc is an exceptional outcome. Plug and play rather than waiting 3 years to see if a kid can cut it, and keep first rounders for elite young talent is a big win.


Roos's thinking at it's worst goes beyond a middling pick for the likes of Kennedy every now and then. At any rate, they obviously did their homework on that player and pretty much realised he could play as a starting midfielder if given the opportunity.

The Jury is still out whether Sydney have the balance right and Victorian clubs are not in a position to emulate Sydney's culture. Who is to say Roos would adjust his outlook to suit each club and different circumstances? You would have to treat everything as a 'case by case' scenario and not simply say 'we want to trade our second round pick for a player'. There is also a lot of difference between a wooden spooner's second round draft pick and a premiership sides one. I think the evidence suggests that Roos is of the old school, even if a superior example of that.


Can you take an ordinary player, and make him excellent? Can you identify a particular role for a player that hasn't yet found a niche? If you can do those things, you can do what the Swans did.

Melbourne went for experience last year and it was a disaster, unsurprisingly. If Roos tried it next year it would probably have middling success. After years of building a club to a high level of competence, it can work brilliantly. Helps if you have an extra 10% in the cap though...


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 Post subject: Re: Roos or Malthouse?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 4842
aramari wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
aramari wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
I don't like Roos' quick-fix mentality, pure and simple.


This mentality is flawed unless you have a great system, list management and culture. If you do, then you have a huge advantage over the competition. Mid-level picks for the likes of J Kennedy, Mumford, McGlynn etc is an exceptional outcome. Plug and play rather than waiting 3 years to see if a kid can cut it, and keep first rounders for elite young talent is a big win.


Roos's thinking at it's worst goes beyond a middling pick for the likes of Kennedy every now and then. At any rate, they obviously did their homework on that player and pretty much realised he could play as a starting midfielder if given the opportunity.

The Jury is still out whether Sydney have the balance right and Victorian clubs are not in a position to emulate Sydney's culture. Who is to say Roos would adjust his outlook to suit each club and different circumstances? You would have to treat everything as a 'case by case' scenario and not simply say 'we want to trade our second round pick for a player'. There is also a lot of difference between a wooden spooner's second round draft pick and a premiership sides one. I think the evidence suggests that Roos is of the old school, even if a superior example of that.


Can you take an ordinary player, and make him excellent? Can you identify a particular role for a player that hasn't yet found a niche? If you can do those things, you can do what the Swans did.

Melbourne went for experience last year and it was a disaster, unsurprisingly. If Roos tried it next year it would probably have middling success. After years of building a club to a high level of competence, it can work brilliantly. Helps if you have an extra 10% in the cap though...


There is a theory that because Sydney was the only NSW club in a state dominated by rugby, the players are under less pressure. I'm not sure how true that might be, I haven't looked into it, but it's a possibility. As an outsider, I'm not convinced about the Sydney model suffice to say that the Kennedy example is the only one I'm really familiar with (given he has the same name as a former Blue) and you'd have to give them a tick there.

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