Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sun May 11, 2025 8:25 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 298 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:25 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
Blue Vain wrote:
Its easy to pick isolated actions out of every match and King is the master of it. Unfortunately its his only real value IMO.
If he has a look at the game holistically instead of picking isolated actions.

The fact is we won the game. Had we continued the defensive mindset of the first 40 minutes where we allowed Port to dominate the uncontested ball, our players would be sitting around now nursing hangovers.
Suck shit King.


I doubt that many of these media guys would bother sitting through and dissecting these games, via the field view footage on top of the television telecast.
Maybe they do but I'd bet they've got their gophers spending the volume of time needed to do so.

Whichever way though I agree with your last statement, but unfortunately that applies to many of the self-proclaimed experts.
I think there's plenty of supporters on boards that see things better.........now that's saying something.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:54 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17210
Blue Vain wrote:
Its easy to pick isolated actions out of every match and King is the master of it. Unfortunately its his only real value IMO.
If he has a look at the game holistically instead of picking isolated actions.

The fact is we won the game. Had we continued the defensive mindset of the first 40 minutes where we allowed Port to dominate the uncontested ball, our players would be sitting around now nursing hangovers.
Suck shit King.


:clap: :clap: It begs the question BV...should we play a more attacking brand of footy against the Tigers? I'm not advocating a shootout, but not far from it, because I don't believe these players of ours have a clue how to play the style of defensive gameplan MM wants them to play.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:02 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
DocSherrin wrote:

:clap: :clap: It begs the question BV...should we play a more attacking brand of footy against the Tigers? I'm not advocating a shootout, but not far from it, because I don't believe these players of ours have a clue how to play the style of defensive gameplan MM wants them to play.


They're struggling aren't they?
Just watch Yarran second guessing himself to know that to be the case.

Do you think we may ultimately acclimatize to Mick's plans or does Mick buckle a little further and change his vision. Shall be............interesting?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:19 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 4412
Location: Perth
Release the shackles. Seriously. At least for this week.

_________________
We are on our way back...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:25 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 6923
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:03 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2700
We do what is needed to win. After all that is the point of the game. WINNING!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:03 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24612
Location: Kaloyasena
Wow don't under estimate Simpson's effort to get to Broadbent as he kicked that poster in the final minute, his effort to get to Broadbent may not have spoiled but indirectly the perceived pressure he put on and the effort to get there was massive.

Just saw this tonight on another angle, Kade Simpson :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:17 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
DocSherrin wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Its easy to pick isolated actions out of every match and King is the master of it. Unfortunately its his only real value IMO.
If he has a look at the game holistically instead of picking isolated actions.

The fact is we won the game. Had we continued the defensive mindset of the first 40 minutes where we allowed Port to dominate the uncontested ball, our players would be sitting around now nursing hangovers.
Suck shit King.


:clap: :clap: It begs the question BV...should we play a more attacking brand of footy against the Tigers? I'm not advocating a shootout, but not far from it, because I don't believe these players of ours have a clue how to play the style of defensive gameplan MM wants them to play.


The results clearly demonstrate Doc that if we play a defensive game, Richmond will eat us. Look at Round 1. Once we carried the ball and played the corridor option when it was available, we were back in the game. Unpredictability!
It doesnt mean we play a totally offensive game. It means we assess our options as they present. If we're unpredictable, it makes it harder for the opposition to zone us. Play the boundary all the time, they can set up easily. If we also take a good option in the corridor, it forces them to also defend there. Spreading their zone = more space.
Playing around the boundary and kicking to contests suits Chaplin, Rance, Deledio and Ellis beautifully. Lets see how Chaplin goes on a leading forward who runs him up and back toward goal. Same with Ellis.

Lets hope the coaches back us in. Look at the first round. Richmond kicked 9.14 to 4.6 in the first half. Second time around they kicked 8.2 to 3.2 in the first quarter. We cant play overly defensive footy and expect to claw our way back into the match again.
We have to match them in the uncontested footy early.

The key will be clearances. Looking at the previous games, the balance and totals between contested and uncontested ball at the final siren have been very close. Its the clearances that were the difference.
Tuck has been good in both games and we cant underestimate his ability to get the ball out to their runners. Jackson has been good of late and we have to be mindful of how we want him played. If Judd plays, hopefully he'll go to him. If not, Murphy.
Either way I would play Jacksons opponent as a high half forward away from the stoppages but running past to receive the cleared ball. Gibbs has to play as a ball winner. With Murphy down and Carrazzo/McLean/Judd probably missing or being underprepared, Gibbs will have to step up as a clearance player.
Curnow on Cotchin.

Riewoldt will drag Jamo away from deep defence to isolate a lesser opponent on Vickery/Edwards. We have to be smart and make Jamo our deep defender. If Riewoldt goes up field, the defenders have to roll off their opponents to allow Jamo to stay deep.
I'd play Walker or Tuohy on Edwards. Exploit Edwards poor accountability.

The difference for us is our pace and the ability of our forwards to run back into space. Jeffy and Yarran are very good at it, as is Henderson. The key is smart decision making when we have the ball. We cant bomb it to no one. We have to run, carry and share the ball Geelong style. That requires players to run offensively. Yes David King will pick some instances where we've rolled the dice but thats how we will win the game.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:25 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


What if Mick is wrong and the players are right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:34 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1845
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Adam Chatfield wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


What if Mick is wrong and the players are right?


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:50 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Scotty12000 wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


What if Mick is wrong and the players are right?


Image


our air only took 10 years...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:26 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7275
Adam Chatfield wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


What if Mick is wrong and the players are right?

I look forward to 3 points from a prelim, again...

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:31 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


I dont understand that theory. Are you saying we're better off if we play a gamestyle that results in losses?
Nobody is having success with a gamestyle based on turning 100% possession into 50% intentionally. So much scoring is related to turnovers. It doesnt make sense to intentionally give the opposition a 50/50 shot at retrieving the ball.
I'd suggest giving the opposition a chance at getting the ball bavk is "playing lie millionaires". Not playing the percentages and trying to retain it.

Can someone explain the logic to me?

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:34 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am
Posts: 35135
Blue Vain wrote:
Can someone explain the logic to me?


Nope, but I owe you 3 Mars Bars.

_________________
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:35 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
Lucky for you I'm off chocolate... :lol:

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:38 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10482
Blue Vain wrote:
DocSherrin wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Its easy to pick isolated actions out of every match and King is the master of it. Unfortunately its his only real value IMO.
If he has a look at the game holistically instead of picking isolated actions.

The fact is we won the game. Had we continued the defensive mindset of the first 40 minutes where we allowed Port to dominate the uncontested ball, our players would be sitting around now nursing hangovers.
Suck shit King.


:clap: :clap: It begs the question BV...should we play a more attacking brand of footy against the Tigers? I'm not advocating a shootout, but not far from it, because I don't believe these players of ours have a clue how to play the style of defensive gameplan MM wants them to play.


The results clearly demonstrate Doc that if we play a defensive game, Richmond will eat us. Look at Round 1. Once we carried the ball and played the corridor option when it was available, we were back in the game. Unpredictability!
It doesnt mean we play a totally offensive game. It means we assess our options as they present. If we're unpredictable, it makes it harder for the opposition to zone us. Play the boundary all the time, they can set up easily. If we also take a good option in the corridor, it forces them to also defend there. Spreading their zone = more space.
Playing around the boundary and kicking to contests suits Chaplin, Rance, Deledio and Ellis beautifully. Lets see how Chaplin goes on a leading forward who runs him up and back toward goal. Same with Ellis.

Lets hope the coaches back us in. Look at the first round. Richmond kicked 9.14 to 4.6 in the first half. Second time around they kicked 8.2 to 3.2 in the first quarter. We cant play overly defensive footy and expect to claw our way back into the match again.
We have to match them in the uncontested footy early.

The key will be clearances. Looking at the previous games, the balance and totals between contested and uncontested ball at the final siren have been very close. Its the clearances that were the difference.
Tuck has been good in both games and we cant underestimate his ability to get the ball out to their runners. Jackson has been good of late and we have to be mindful of how we want him played. If Judd plays, hopefully he'll go to him. If not, Murphy.
Either way I would play Jacksons opponent as a high half forward away from the stoppages but running past to receive the cleared ball. Gibbs has to play as a ball winner. With Murphy down and Carrazzo/McLean/Judd probably missing or being underprepared, Gibbs will have to step up as a clearance player.
Curnow on Cotchin.

Riewoldt will drag Jamo away from deep defence to isolate a lesser opponent on Vickery/Edwards. We have to be smart and make Jamo our deep defender. If Riewoldt goes up field, the defenders have to roll off their opponents to allow Jamo to stay deep.
I'd play Walker or Tuohy on Edwards. Exploit Edwards poor accountability.

The difference for us is our pace and the ability of our forwards to run back into space. Jeffy and Yarran are very good at it, as is Henderson. The key is smart decision making when we have the ball. We cant bomb it to no one. We have to run, carry and share the ball Geelong style. That requires players to run offensively. Yes David King will pick some instances where we've rolled the dice but thats how we will win the game.


Agree with a lot of that BV but the highlighted part is the best out of the lot.
Why is it we can see it and can offer the solution, yet our coaches or players cannot. :banghead:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:41 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 6923
Blue Vain wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
The Lukedarcyificiations of going for a more attacking style of football in this one game mightn't be so great in the long run.

Agree that we need to play a more attacking brand of footy to beat Richmond.
What happens hypothetically when we beat Richmond, maybe have an honorable loss against Sydney or Hawthorn the week after, and the players have even further reason to question Malthouse's gameplan next season?

Struggle into the finals under Mick's way, play like millionaires and do some damage on the finals series. Whole year's work down for nothing.

Then again, we could play the unaccountable brand of footy and get flogged, and maybe its what hammers the message home to the list of what's required...


I dont understand that theory. Are you saying we're better off if we play a gamestyle that results in losses?
Nobody is having success with a gamestyle based on turning 100% possession into 50% intentionally. So much scoring is related to turnovers. It doesnt make sense to intentionally give the opposition a 50/50 shot at retrieving the ball.
I'd suggest giving the opposition a chance at getting the ball bavk is "playing lie millionaires". Not playing the percentages and trying to retain it.

Can someone explain the logic to me?


I'm not pro one game plan or another. Just seems counter productive to drop everything that has been attempted all year on the basis of a finals series we shouldn't be in in the first place, especially if he intends to continue it the year after.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:11 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
He has to decide whether of not this run and stun game that won us the game is what he wants long term. if it isn't, we will see footballers drafted/traded for those who can play MMs more defensive style.
Players we thing should stay will go and vice versa.

This is Ratten's list and they were picked to play the way they played for a quarter and a half last week. That's what they're better at. Like it or lump it.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 298 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], london blue and 99 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group