What relevance is the Judd deal to our drafting?

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

I take your point re Josh Kennedy zee. And Walker was unlucky to miss AA in 2011.

But it's hard to pick a measure of draft picks which paints anything less than an ugly story. Look at the John Nicholls medal. How many medallists have we drafted (as opposed to recruiting through a trade)? Once again my memory is poor on some of these, but I get the following:

Marc Murphy
Andrew Carrazzo (rookie draft)
Brett Ratten
Scott Camporeale
Matthew Allan
Fraser Brown

I think Teague was a trade rather than a late draft choice (wasn't there a package deal with Digby Morrell?).

Regardless, that's six (seven?) players since the draft was implemented in the late 1980's. approximately 25 years of drafts. Returning to Wayne Hughes, he's picked two of them.

My point is actually beyond Wayne Hughes though. This is a club which has never embraced the draft. Things absolutely have to change.

Ratten, Allan and Brown weren't drafted either. All zoned, and came in via Under 19s.

And yes Teague came with Digby when we sent Corey back to Nth.

_________________
"They're [REDACTED]'

Cheers Blueboy. I'm more than happy to be corrected. So the whole draft story just got even uglier. Three best and fairests from the draft.

How many players have we drafted overall? Success for us is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Well we missed on Kennedy a number 3 and a pick 20....so plenty of you look at the raw data...!!!

PLUs this is the list management thread.... see what it says on top???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

It is probably on a par with whether Luke has a contract or not or whether he is infront, behind or beside WH.

All you need to know is Rogers now makes the ultimate decisions as head of Recruitment and has the final say if and when there needs to be a call made on a selection. Just like every other club in the AFL. One man has the final say. That is why he is in charge.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I tell you what there could be some serious list management on this site.

_________________
"I'll tell you what I didn't do;
I never injected anyone."
AD 3/3/14

..if the idea is rating how well we pick kids in the draft, you can cross Carrots off your list as well, since he'd already been in the system and had some decent development in him [ex-cat]..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Totally agree, we have for the past decade still believed we can do what we have always done and buy players etc.

I have no doubt this is why a lot of our recruiting staff are still there. At any other decent club they would be gone and long ago.

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

I've made this point before, but I like to make it again each time new "evidence" comes in.

We are very good at delisting. You get delisted from Carlton then there is very little chance that you will make it anywhere else.

Thorton and OHalpin delisted from GWS.

Not sure what you're saying and sorry I missed the revelation the first time around.
I think upon further "evidence" that you may find that to be the case for most clubs.
Guess we're just waiting for Russell and Austin to be quit, to solidify this evidence?

Maybe we can look at it another way: We've done O.K. for picking up others de-listings, so I guess it may just depend which way you want to look at things.

To what extent is the role of the coach in decision making? difference between Ratten and Malthouse if you know.

Does the coach have the ultimate say in the 'type' of player he want's... and then the recruiters seek them out... or is it a five man jamboree?

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

No idea how MM will work it this year. Last year because MM was out of the Loop to some extent it was left to SR and WH.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

It is a little concerning for me to hear of other sides that are declaring their eagerness to be a highly active player come trade week.
Bulldogs
GWS
Suns
Saints
Bombers(not that I think they should be allowed to trade themselves into the first rounds)

These guys are all quite outward at the moment in signalling somewhat aggressive intentions for the coming trade period.
Where will this leave us in the scheme of it all?
It could work either way, depending on who we are really willing to part ways with.
I hope we don't get left behind due to the basic laws of supply/demand.

I got a baaaad feeling on this one.

_________________
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

I know what you're saying and that's why Carlton has to build itself as a place of destiny.
We haven't been that in recent years and Hawthorn have shown up as being many players first choice.

My concerns aren't as much as for who we may not get but for who we may.
Not saying it's going to happen but you wouldn't want your scenario playing out and us opting for second best.
I don't think that will be the case but have to say I'm just a little nervous.

Only time will tell.

All the facts create an ugly scenario.

All of us would have thought back in 2002 that we will rebuild bit by bit and become a powerhouse in 5-10 years.
Some didn't understand we weren't in the draft for a couple of years and thought it would take 5 to hit back, but the experts suggested the penalties were a life sentence and at least 10 years before we became a powerhouse.

We have surely [REDACTED] up because we are middle of the road 11 years down the track.

Furthermore, why has the AFL given the Bumbers a "priority pick" end of first round when the Bumbers have been banned from the first 2 rounds of the draft and their list seems sound enough (albeit drug induced) and young enough to carve up 15 or so wins in a season when they were down on themselves (fully well knowing there were penalties)?

Because Carlton's penalties (when they were down and out) were so severe 10 years weren't going to help unless there was some very "lucky' drafting. The AFL Commission and in particular Ronny Biggs...Evans... robbed us and screwed us....but lets not take away the focus away from recruitment and list management.

No recruiter can be expected to pick a winner with every selection, but then again supporters would expect much much more from the high picks we earned for our recruiters over the last 10 years. Have a look at the failures, not the Kennedy Judd deal....it's @#$%&! awful.

Rookies rule and late picks in Simmo and Fisher were our lucky charms from the draft.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

:Having said all that regarding the Luke Williams debate and whether he is a good pick up by us.

I can't believe Geelong can score so many hits so late in the draft say Rounds 3 and 4 and even 5, whilst we have so many misses in Rounds 2 & 3.

The recruiters are important, but I think the environment, culture and development are more important and ours has been sadly lacking over the past 10 years.




It's environment Mortimer.


[youtube]wjkdynBFHuQ[/youtube]

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

To use an analogy, I see our trade position like a poker hand with a King, a Jack, a pair of sixes and a three.

No hearts.

Most of the other teams billed to attack the trade period have at least one Ace(higher pick or player with more upside/less inefficiencies).

I just get the feeling we will need to add more "sweeteners" than any other club to get a hallmark deal done.

This will inevitably leave us short come draft time.

Time will tell, yes and I'll keep my fingers crossed the entire time.

_________________
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

Who cares what those sides say at the moment. They aren't in the finals and can say anything they like. It doesn't mean they will steal a great player during the trade period!

No matter which way I look, this is what I see.
More work needs to be put into player #44 and working up rather than player #1 working down.

Malthouse preaches that ethic, so we'll want to start seeing the result of that leading into next year, although I've been very happy with players, say 25 - 35 this year.
The intent and endeavour has certainly been there, even when some of our front liners have been found wanting.