Malthouse contract discussion: EXTENSION DENIED!

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

kezza wrote:

You have to wonder why so many players seem to be down on confidence.
The club coming out and saying there will be big list changes at the end of the year wouldnt help. Maybe many are scared to make mistakes and not playing their natural games.

Just my opinion of course.

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:04 pm

plenty have regressed and most that have improved have been natural development eg Hendo

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

kingkerna wrote:

plenty have regressed and most that have improved have been natural development eg Hendo

I agree completely.

Dominator_7 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:17 pm

People need to seriously get over Ratten.

He had 5 years (including Judd in his prime between 2008-2011 and a two time Coleman medalist at FF for the first 2 years) and the best he could do was 5th. He left us with a list that is physically and mentally soft, with little key position or other genuine talent coming through

Mick came in THINKING he knew where the list was at, and HOPING he could turn things around.
He know KNOWS EXACTLY where we re at and will act accordingly.

Some people might ve been happy to keep floating along between 5tjh-8th, making token finals appearances most years, but I wasn't. Ratten couldn't take us that next step, and that's why he was let go.
Whether Sticks and co hired Mick for instant success is irrelevant. Deep in our hearts, we all knew our list was never good enough to win a flag.I'm happy to take a step back this year, have the list assessed by a proven successful coach, and do what needs to be done to get success.

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

Dominator_7 wrote:

People need to seriously get over Ratten.

He had 5 years (including Judd in his prime between 2008-2011 and a two time Coleman medalist at FF for the first 2 years) and the best he could do was 5th. He left us with a list that is physically and mentally soft, with little key position or other genuine talent coming through

Mick came in THINKING he knew where the list was at, and HOPING he could turn things around.
He know KNOWS EXACTLY where we re at and will act accordingly.

Some people might ve been happy to keep floating along between 5tjh-8th, making token finals appearances most years, but I wasn't. Ratten couldn't take us that next step, and that's why he was let go.
Whether Sticks and co hired Mick for instant success is irrelevant. Deep in our hearts, we all knew our list was never good enough to win a flag.I'm happy to take a step back this year, have the list assessed by a proven successful coach, and do what needs to be done to get success.

We are not talking about Ratten ... just looking at what Mick has done with the playing group. I think he has failed badly.

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10482

Raising Ratten is a nice deflection to the argument by some. That is all BBW.

camel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:24 pm

kingkerna wrote:

plenty have regressed and most that have improved have been natural development eg Hendo

So if you can have "natural development" why can't you have natural regression? :razz:

You can''t just say everything bad is due to Mick and everything positive is just good luck.

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:32 pm

I didn't say everything, I said most - nice try though.

Yarran is a direct result of Mickey Mouse
Laidler ditto
Duigan double ditto

You could have coached Henderson and he would have given the same input (possibly more)
You could also have devised an attacking game plan (when required), you know, horses for courses type stuff (remember those days?)

padre · **Joined:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm **Posts:** 934

I am a supporter of mick.
5 grandfinals in 11 years with collingwood. Never missed the finals in his 9 years at west coast, scoring 2 flags.
He gets you into a winning position. Grand final appearances are like gold. But you have to be lucky to win them. Mick had his fair share of bad luck, running into first brisbane and then geelong juggernauts in the grand finals.
Once he is allowed to stamp his authority on this team we will see results. He has started but time has not allowed enough filtration.
It starts with trade week.

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:54 pm

Ron Barassi was a great coach also, how about Tommy Hafey???

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2644

Dominator_7 wrote:

People need to seriously get over Ratten.

He had 5 years (including Judd in his prime between 2008-2011 and a two time Coleman medalist at FF for the first 2 years) and the best he could do was 5th. He left us with a list that is physically and mentally soft, with little key position or other genuine talent coming through

Mick came in THINKING he knew where the list was at, and HOPING he could turn things around.
He know KNOWS EXACTLY where we re at and will act accordingly.

Some people might ve been happy to keep floating along between 5tjh-8th, making token finals appearances most years, but I wasn't. Ratten couldn't take us that next step, and that's why he was let go.
Whether Sticks and co hired Mick for instant success is irrelevant. Deep in our hearts, we all knew our list was never good enough to win a flag.I'm happy to take a step back this year, have the list assessed by a proven successful coach, and do what needs to be done to get success.

I wasn't a huge Ratten fan but he was ousted at the first hurdle and never given the chance to take the next step.

Five years as a rookie coach and taking the team of young and mentally weak players to three finals series from where he received that team was a pass mark, not great but be deserved another year and to be treated with more understanding and cohesion.

Malthouse has coached for close to thirty years, if you stay long enough in the same place and turn over players and assistants you are bound to come close to success. Malthouse did SFA at Collingwood since 2003 so let’s not over romanticize his ability.

Malthouse is a master of taking ideas off his assistants and taking credit. Before the change over Collingwood was just average and in the last twoyears of his contract things happened.

Was it him or Buckley and the others?

By the looks of it Malthouse needs innovative and fresh assistants he can siphon from, instead he’s got Green (as a midfield coach), Barker as a (forward coach) and Capuano as (development coach).

How are we going in those departments and have we seen any improvement in those areas this year? :roll:

Make up your own minds or excuses.

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

BigBlueWave wrote:

Make of it what you will ... purely my opinion of where players are at under MM.

1 Andrew Walker - some improvement (but debateable since he is has been a useful forward in the past.
2 Troy Menzel - inconclusive (lack of opportunity)
3 Marc Murphy - regressed (injuries but also a loss of confidence)
4 Bryce Gibbs - unchanged
5 Chris Judd - regressed (age probably)
6 Kade Simpson - improved (debateable)
7 Dylan Buckley - ??? (lack of opportunity)
8 Matthew Kreuzer - improved
9 Kane Lucas - improved
10 Matthew Watson - improved
11 Robert Warnock - regressed (lack of opportunity)
12 Mitch Robinson - regressed (lost confidence)
13 Chris Yarran - regressed (lost confidence)
14 Brock McLean - unchanged
15 Jeremy Laidler - regressed (lost confidence)
17 Sam Rowe - ??? possibly improved (debatebale)
18 Tom Temay - ??? (no opportunity)
19 Eddie Betts - regressed (injuries and lost confidence)
21 Josh Bootsma - improved
22 Shaun Hampson - unchanged (injuries)
23 Lachie Henderson - improved (but was excellent last year down back)
24 Patrick McCarthy - ??? (lack of opportunity or form did not warrant selection)
25 Luke Mitchell - ??? (lack of opportunity or form did not warrant selection)
26 Andrew McInnes - improved
27 Dennis Armfield - unchanged
29 Heath Scotland - regressed
30 Jarrad Waite - unchanged
31 Marcus Davies - unchanged
32 Nick Graham - ??? (lack of opportunity)
34 Nick Duigan - regressed
38 Jeff Garlett - improved
40 Michael Jamison - unchanged
41 Levi Casboult - regressed
42 Zach Tuohy - improved
43 Simon White - improved
44 Andrew Carrazzo - regressed (injuries have not helped ... but also i reckon loss of confidence)
45 Aaron Joseph - regressed
46 David Ellard - unchanged (injuries)

16 Andrew Collins - unchanged (injuries)
20 Rhys O'Keeffe - unchanged
28 Tom Bell - regressed (lack of opportunity and lost confidence)
35 Ed Curnow - improved
37 Jaryd Cachia - improved
39 Frazer Dale - unchanged

I am happy to argue the disgraceful decision to sack Ratten but my point really was to consider where the players are currently situated this year under MM.

Trigger · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am **Posts:** 1826

kingkerna wrote:

I didn't say everything, I said most - nice try though.

Yarran is a direct result of Mickey Mouse
Laidler ditto
Duigan double ditto

You could have coached Henderson and he would have given the same input (possibly more)
You could also have devised an attacking game plan (when required), you know, horses for courses type stuff (remember those days?)

Are you trying to tell us that the above 3 mentioned players were our future premiership players, and mm finished them off. Boy are we in trouble.
Yarran maybe, but he is lazy and will not get out of a jog, and the other 2. You sure your not Wayne Hughes.

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

Trigger wrote:

kingkerna wrote:

I didn't say everything, I said most - nice try though.

Yarran is a direct result of Mickey Mouse
Laidler ditto
Duigan double ditto

You could have coached Henderson and he would have given the same input (possibly more)
You could also have devised an attacking game plan (when required), you know, horses for courses type stuff (remember those days?)

Are you trying to tell us that the above 3 mentioned players were our future premiership players, and mm finished them off. Boy are we in trouble.
Yarran maybe, but he is lazy and will not get out of a jog, and the other 2. You sure your not Wayne Hughes.

After a year with Malthouse that might be your perspective but a year and a bit ago ... Laidler was considered probably our best backman and one of the best intercept players in the league. Yarran was considered a player on the way to stardom. They are unrecognizable under Malthouse.

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:48 pm

Trigger I don't have time to go through our whole list to highlight who has underperformed under him, my apologies.

Trigger · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am **Posts:** 1826

kingkerna wrote:

Trigger I don't have time to go through our whole list to highlight who has underperformed under him, my apologies.

Sorry, but you have managed to pick out 3 of the worst examples.
Some of the others I agree with but those 3.

Trigger · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am **Posts:** 1826

BigBlueWave wrote:

Trigger wrote:

kingkerna wrote:

I didn't say everything, I said most - nice try though.

Yarran is a direct result of Mickey Mouse
Laidler ditto
Duigan double ditto

You could have coached Henderson and he would have given the same input (possibly more)
You could also have devised an attacking game plan (when required), you know, horses for courses type stuff (remember those days?)

Are you trying to tell us that the above 3 mentioned players were our future premiership players, and mm finished them off. Boy are we in trouble.
Yarran maybe, but he is lazy and will not get out of a jog, and the other 2. You sure your not Wayne Hughes.

After a year with Malthouse that might be your perspective but a year and a bit ago ... Laidler was considered probably our best backman and one of the best intercept players in the league. Yarran was considered a player on the way to stardom. They are unrecognizable under Malthouse.

There in lies the problem, could not get a game at the cats, and yarran on the way to stardom, potential wise yes, but he will not work hard enough and on top of that he is soft as butter.

kingkerna · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:14 pm

how is Laidler and Yarran poor examples? You can add Robbo, Murhpy, Betts, Simpson just off the top of my head.

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17210

The Ratten lovers just don't @#$%&! get it. So I'll say it again...

The. Majority. Of. The. Playing. List. Didn't. Want. Him. As. Coach. Anymore.

Comprendes?

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

kingkerna wrote:

how is Laidler and Yarran poor examples? You can add Robbo, Murhpy, Betts, Simpson just off the top of my head.

Simpson? Was struggling previously and has played his best footy in a long while this year. Been one of our best.

Malthouse contract discussion: EXTENSION DENIED!

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