Blue Vain, you seriously think the current group of players can win a flag?

Take your meds

What are you on about?
I dont think we're anywhere near a premiership side with grandpa at the helm.
If you're going to take shots at me, at least try to place a hint of intelligence into it.

What I do know is this list has the ability to play finals if our players are anywhere near their best. Have a look through the team at the moment. Judd, Murphy, Carrazzo, Betts, Yarran, Warnock, Jamison, Garlett, Robinson, Gibbs etc
All playing well below their best at the moment. Some coming toward the latter part of their career, some just coming into their prime. Why are they not playing well?
Why are they shadows of the players they were 2 years ago?
The coaches role is to have as many players performing at their optimum as possible. Ours are nowhere near it. Posters here can throw them on the scrap heap but there are players in that list who have been multiple All Australians, coaches award winners, top 3 in the Brownlow. High level performers.
Why are they all playing poorly? Whats the common denominator?

Its Pagan all over again. A bloody minded attitude to make a list adapt to a coaches style instead of the coach assessing the list and developing a game style based on their strengths. Malthouses disciple, Mark Neeld did exactly the same at Melbourne and look where they are now.
Thats where the same bloody minded stupidity is sending us.
Enjoy the ride.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

To all you MM supporters that blame the lazy, weak, sooking, uninterested and uncoachable list.


He is there because his predecessor failed.


What the f!@# is he paid to do?

It's not up to the assistant coach's.
It's not up to leading teams.
It's not up to the president.

Just like your coach, it's everybody elses fault.

A sixty year old sook.

Can we please shut this thread down.
Its pathetic and Richmond like.

I'm not a fan at all of our "process" for bringing him in. It reeked of complacency, laziness and a lack of professionalism.

But for me what it comes to is that Mick's our coach, and IMO should be given more than a season to prove what he can do. He should be given the chance to bring in the people he wants, and implement the strategies he wants.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Agree.

For me it has shown how ineffective we have been in so many areas over the past decade. Heads should role and changes need to be made because people who have been in charge of development, list management, recruiting haven't produced the results we need to be back at the top.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

no we always said it was up to the club
as coach ratten allowed a dark era of stupidity to fester
Look at the types of players we were using good picks on and trading for.

The game was changing and the Carlton brains-trust just couldnt see it.

The stolen years....

Now we must bottom out and start again... make no mistake!!!.. only StKilda and maybe Melbourne have a worse midfield going forward .....

And maybe not.. im not sure.. !!!
But we definitely are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to midfielders.

Can you tell me why?



Some of the Carlton recruitment . development and footy dept staff... hard at work at their main job

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Gerry, I normally enjoy your posts, but I have to comment on some of your MM gripes.

1. How can MM have been "dragged out of retirement" when he left C'wood on the back of being shafted by McGuire so that his beloved Bucks could get the gig? I stand corrected, but did he ever publicly declare he was retired? He was in the media one year before he was back coaching.

"Bitterness, ego and money" - just your opinion and here's mine. I've seen enough intensity from MM from the boundary and the box this year to strongly suggest he has his heart and mind well and truly in the right place to coach an AFL team. Jarad Waite will back this up.

2. The very fact that you've raised his days as a "nasty ex Richmond player" and being an "ex Collingwood" coach suggests that you're letting emotion get in the way of your normally balanced opinion.

Who could give a flower that he played for the Tiges and used to belt our lads back in the early 70's?? Was Parko a "Carlton lover" when he played? Hell, I was at Princes Park one day when an old lady threatened to jump the fence and assault him with her umbrella after he'd dealt harshly with one of ours. Barassi? Percy Bentley, an ex Richmond player and coach who crossed over and coached us to two flags back in the 40's?

Ironically, Pago grew up a Blues fan, need I say more. And, our gun coaching "alternative", Paul Roos, also grew up a Blues fan but I didn't see much love for us when he was coaching the Swans - he clearly enjoyed beating us more than most clubs, you only had to pick up his manner at pressers after our games.

Yes, this thread is getting Richmond like, it's scary.

DS, fwiw,I do agree with you.
Another season.
Too late to change what many of us didn't want.
I had to reluctantly concede that Ratts had his failings, despite the long injury list.
I don't see how he can solely be blamed for drafting deficiencies though.
Despite disliking many things about MM, I want him to succeed, because he is our bloody coach, or problem now.
So, I want to get behind him. he makes that incredibly hard this year.
My feeling is that he is quite poor at people management. Or, perhaps has no clue how to manage the introverted personality.
He strikes me as old school dictatorial type. not too flexible. I see Sando, and the warmth exuding between him and his players. We do not have that. I think MM is the 'favorites' kind of guy.
I suppose he will bring in players to fit his style, and we'll lose some to other clubs where I don't doubt they'll shine.
I wish we were a club where the highest potential is brought out in every player.
No evidence of that so far.
Completely happy to be won over, if we see that positive change next year.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

I just can't stomach that this bloke is at Carlton and he is giving me no reason to change that view.

Sakc him !!

What's your definition of a "process"?

What I do know is Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood reviewed their football departments and made changes according to the findings of those reviews.
Sydney knew Roos was leaving and reviewed their coaching structure to see what changes would be required. They understood that their current structure was excellent and consequently Roos integrated Longmire into the senior role.

Geelong reviewed their football department and concluded that Thompson wasn't delegating responsibility to his assistant coaches and they needed additional "buy in" from their playing group. Hence the introduction of the Leading Teams philosophy into their coaching system.

Collingwood were similar. They reviewed the entire club and the football dept review recommended additional delegation to the assistant coaches and to bring Leading Teams in to address a poor culture that existed within the playing group. Both those recommendations spelt the end of Malthouses reign as he was adverse to both.

They're all processes. They are reviews of the football department to find the structure that gives the club the best opportunity to succeed. They then bought in or retained the best person to oversee that structure.

What was our process? What structure did we decide was the best one to take us forward?
None. The board were shitting themselves at the unrest with the membership so they tried to grab the best lifeline to buy themselves time.
Roos knocked them back so they offered Malthouse an offer he couldnt refuse.

What's worse, not only did they not have a comprehensive structure for him to come in and complement, they didnt have a @#$%&! clue of what one looked like.

So what was their process? Heres a million dollars Mick, come in and bring who you want, do what you want, act how you want, just bail us out for our ineptitude.
Wheres the accountability?

Process.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Player Ratings from Final siren. just as an objective measure (nowhere near perfect, but an index)

Players down from 2011

Murphy- 111 v 85 down 23%
Judd- 100 v 82 down 18% (end of career)
Gibbs- 105 v 90 down 14%
Betts- 69 v 57 down 17% (injured/suspended)
Yarran- 72 v 58 down 19%
Jamison 56 v 50 down 11%
Scotland- 99 v 82 down 17% (injured/end of career)
Warnock- 74 v 68 down 8%
Simpson- 95 v 83 down 13%
Robinson- 92 v 74 down 19%
Carrazzo- 92 v 63 down (32%) (injured and end of career)

Players about the same
Waite 72 v 71 (injured/end of career)
Garlett 72 v 73

Players that have improved
Brock Mclean 66 v 87 up 32%
Ed Curnow 72 v 76 up 5%
Walker 76 v 85 up 12%
aRMFIELD- 51 V 57 up 12%
Henderson- 52 v 72 up 39%
Tuohy 54 v 44 up 25%
Lucas- 70 v 59 up 19%
Cachia- 0 v 68

I think both Simpson's and Walker's numbers maybe anomalous because they are playing different roles this year, but the rest are about right.

Basically, you are concentrating on the Murphy's and Gibbs' in terms of your assessment, but others certainly have improved (but not enough to account for the drop in output from Murphy and Judd). The criticism of Malthouse should be about why he hasn't blooded more offensive midfielders.

This post may not show the 'intelligence' that you require, but it does deliver one objective measure for anyone to assess the coach.

yep it is probably the one competent person you want to come into a club and have carte blanche to do what they want at the footy club.

Time will tell if he is competent, but people are going to have to deal with it because no one is paying him out now.

Those saying its just the coach or just the players really are not getting it. Its a club that wins a flag sure the players get the hugs and the coach gets the CV but its the club - why is that? Cos it takes a whole club to win one of these flowers!

It is not Ratts per say

Not Mm per say

Not players per say

and certainly not Pagan per say

its a club a club that refuses to have a good hard @#$%&! look at itself and decide living in the past is done.

Not us we're Carlton @#$%&! the rest

and the rest laugh and say, "Carlton? [REDACTED]!"

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

yes!!

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

People need to get over what happened in 2011. That was 2 years ago.
Things fell apart for a reason. A gameplan with holes in it like Swiss Cheese, and a list full of downhill skiers and a dearth of key position talent.
This year was always going to be a wait and see year, particularly after Malthouse had a good look at our list over the pre season (you may have noticed the hosing down of expectations prior to the start of the season, as opposed to when he was first appointed).
I picked us to be between 6th-8th at best this year, and had some of those close losses in the first half of the year gone our way, this may have been the case.
Calling for the sacking of a coach after less then a year in charge is a total and utter joke. If this is happening this time next year, then I'd be concerned. Until then, we ll just have to wait and see.

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

The midfielders are playing in the forward line and waiting for the taggers to win the ball and methodically and slowly bring it into the forward pocket.

When that fails and the opposition stream forward through the corridor at a good pace to an open forward line where our other mids (ball winners) are put under pressure to stop the onslaught and repel a Mick made game plan.

You’re right about one thing, we do have to rebuild now because tricky micky has destroyed the stability and sense of belonging of this playing group.

Why play for an old coote who degrades the very fabric of your ability.

Old school stupidity IMHO. This isnt a suburban football club with a turnover of 20 grand. It's an elite sporting organisation. You dont give one person "carte blanche" to do whatever he wants. Especially someone who was given the arse 12 months previous for the exact same thing.

You're right about 1 thing though. We'll have to deal with it because the flower who were responsibility for this farce aren't going to admit the error of their ways.

You know its laughable really. 10 years ago my company was a corporate sponsor of the club. I was invited into the club and taken in to meet Dick Pratt in the board room. There were "hangers on" and "coat tail pullers" hanging around telling me how the club was going somewhere and how we had changed our ways. They were talking innovation and upcoming success.
Those people were the "new blood" of the board. All thats happened is they've been indoctrinated into the apathy that exists in the board room or they've moved on.
Looking back, we're almost exactly where we were then. An over the hill autocrat bought in the carry the responsibility, a group of cashed up cheerleaders/board members fawning over the ex players on the board and a team of players being blamed because they cant turn an outdated gamestyle into chocolate cake.

Groundhog day, hey? What a pathetic waste of peoples time, money and emotional investment this administration has presided over. It makes me feel sick to look at our club at the moment.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I agree BV our club smells.

I wish Fitzroy was still around, I think I'd go to their games for a few years.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Must agree BV after the match Saturday ,the bloody Edelstein article in the paper earlier and the continuing inertia and unwillingness or inability of club administration executive and board to work outside 1980s paradigm and the total lack of effort/care and hear of our playing group for the last umpteen years you do think why do I have such an emotional financial and time commitment to this mob as they are giving us NOTHING