David King and Mark Robinson each weigh in on Carlton's woes

Blueboy74 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:58 am

Effes you do understand that paying out players - unlike coaches - still counts into the salary cap on top of the players you then add to your list to replace them with.

In had nothing to do with lack of finances, which seems to be some peoples reasoning.

.....and yes I get the 'But Cloke 1million' defence.

Effes · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:06 am

Blueboy74 wrote:

Effes you do understand that paying out players - unlike coaches - still counts into the salary cap on top of the players you then add to your list to replace them with.

In had nothing to do with lack of finances, which seems to be some peoples reasoning.

.....and yes I get the 'But Cloke 1million' defence.

Of course it's included in the cap. However if you are adding kids you should still have enough room. Clubs can ensure they stay under other ways - eg not allowing fringe players to reach a certain games played threshold which would result in a 'bonus.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17959

Blueboy74 wrote:

Effes you do understand that paying out players - unlike coaches - still counts into the salary cap on top of the players you then add to your list to replace them with.

In had nothing to do with lack of finances, which seems to be some peoples reasoning.

.....and yes I get the 'But Cloke 1million' defence.

If you can make room to bring in a 1 million dollar player, you can pay out some bottom line contracted players and bring in draftees.
The excuse doesnt hold any water.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:35 am

Well we should ask Andy McKay.... hes football operations manager...... :thumbsup:

club29 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:43 am

Effes wrote:

Blueboy74 wrote:

Effes you do understand that paying out players - unlike coaches - still counts into the salary cap on top of the players you then add to your list to replace them with.

In had nothing to do with lack of finances, which seems to be some peoples reasoning.

.....and yes I get the 'But Cloke 1million' defence.

Of course it's included in the cap. However if you are adding kids you should still have enough room. Clubs can ensure they stay under other ways - eg not allowing fringe players to reach a certain games played threshold which would result in a 'bonus.

Could have had it covered by trading a player on decent money for a pick. Laidler or Jamo or one of the small forwards or a ruck.
There were many ways to get a new mix and feel to our list.

Blue Boys · **Joined:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm **Posts:** 1234

If you listen to MM's press conference after the game it sounds like he wanted this year to assess who would cut it and who wouldn't. I think he has a fair idea now and we will see quite a few players turned over at the end of the year.

Rod Waddell · **Joined:** Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am **Posts:** 1650

Synbad wrote:

Well we should ask Andy McKay.... hes football operations manager...... :thumbsup:

Is he? Shit I thought he was a vet. Do we have any animals in our team?

Stone Free · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:57 am

Blue Boys wrote:

If you listen to MM's press conference after the game it sounds like he wanted this year to assess who would cut it and who wouldn't. I think he has a fair idea now and we will see quite a few players turned over at the end of the year.

This is true, and I'll hold off on my judgement until this time next year.

However, for now, I don't think this year' has been the sole result of the coaching panel. Much of the finger of blame needs to be levelled at the playing group, some of whom lack endeavour and toughness. Murphy as captain might have been a massive mistake, you need a captain to inspire confidence and to not go into his shell when the shit gets tough. That was the value of Judd. At the moment, the only players I would like the rest of the team to follow their example are Simmo, Hendo, Touhey and Armfield. (even Judd still).

On the other hand, how many of Geelong's 2006 playing group, when they finished tenth, went on to win the '07 premiership? Their foundations for this period of dominance were likely sown around '01-'03 when they recruited well.

This might be the same cross roads we find ourselves at. There are some players on our list that have great potential, some who are peaking, and others who have peaked and are past it. There will be a massive list turn over at the end of the year, but I just hope we don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Wet Willie · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:45 am

Rod Waddell wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Well we should ask Andy McKay.... hes football operations manager...... :thumbsup:

Is he? Shit I thought he was a vet. Do we have any animals in our team?

We have a number of sloths, a few donkeys, a heap of mice, some rabbits and a goose - you choose...

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=27380&p=1368552&hilit=walker#p1368552

Sugarcane wrote on Sunday 31st March 2013 wrote:

I was calling for him (Walker) to go back at end of NAB Cup because he looked lost as a forward in Malthouses new game plan.

...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33235&p=1437124#p1437124

Sugarcane wrote on Saturday August 10th 2013 wrote:

Walker is soft and poor one on one so shouldn't be a defender

Sugarcane wrote on Thursday August 8 2013 wrote:

Walker is great at rebounding but one on one he is a nightmare
I don't understand why he doesn't play wing given his running ability and so his marking prowess
Maybe it's his lack of nous with ball in hand??

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Feb 8th 2012 wrote:

Ellard, Curnow, Robinson are all hard mids who have come on since last year They have made Brock redundant - just as well as he was struggling anyhow

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Jun 01 2011 wrote:

Gotta love Robbo
Reckon he would be among first half dozen picked every week for the benchmark in hardness and spirit he brings to the team
How good will he be when he finally develops poise

...

Sugarcane wrote on Wednesday August 8th 2013 wrote:

We should all be rejoicing Robbo has been dropped. He's hopeless

Sugarcane wrote on Mon May 23rd, 2011 wrote:

And to think Hughes got criticised for taking Lucas over a tall

Can never have enough mids

Sugarcane wrote on Mon Jun 20 2011 wrote:

Who'd have thought we'd be doing well with 7 rookies in the team, + a 26 year old recruit from SA??

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Feb 08 2012 wrote:

Oh goodie we have a know it all. Synbad, why don;t you tll me the quality on ballers we could have taken in the draft instead of the flankers we have taken?

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Mar 21 2012 wrote:

Synbad you really need to chill out. You're not just looking the fool but a tad crazy too. The club was unlucky to not make the prelim last year. Injuries to Gibbs, Krooze, Waite, Jamo cruelled us. Recruitment has been good. Robbo was an inspired pick, and we have done well with Rookies like Elard, Curnow, Touhy etc.
Rushing players back from injury is a concern though, but hardly deserves the crazed fits you have been on.

...

Sugarcane wrote on Sat Aug 10 2013 wrote:

t's difficult when you have a bozo as president
The recruitment over the last 5-10 years has been deplorable
Inability to read the landscape
Hopefully now with Geelongs previous 2IC and the experienced Malthouse we will get things right but I suspect success is not realistic for the Judd, Waite, Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, McLean era

Sugarcane wrote on Thurs Aug 8 2012 wrote:

The MC know more about the players and the game than you right??

Sugarcane wrote on Thurs Aug 8 2012 wrote:

Seriously the second guessing by keyboard phantoms amazes me. I want Graham in blue as much as the next person but I trust the MC and Mick know what they're doing

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Aug 7 2012 wrote:

Mick thinks a quarter of our best side won't be there when we make a tilt, I think it's closer to half frankly

Sugarcane wrote on Sat Aug 3 2012 wrote:

Next week Murphy and Betts should be relegated to VFL and Graham and Menzel take their spot. Murphy has been insipid with or without injuries

Little bit difficult to take you seriously some times...

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17959

POTY

4thchicken · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am **Posts:** 3136

Negatives
- we run a lot more defensive roles than we used to
- our midfield has gone backwards. Over the past 3-4 seasons, I'd always be confident of our mids winning enough stoppages/ball around the ground - Not this season
- we are a lot more static -> Our game plan has slowed down. We stop and look up the line a lot more whereas under ratten there was a lot more quick ball movement/handball/run
- As part of bombing down the line, we have no run from the back line. Running bounces/runs out of backline are non-existent this year
- the x factor in players has gone - walker, betts, yarran, garlett, judd, murphy, robinson, jamison, henderson, armfield etc - all a lot more defensive/no longer make the play/attack the game as they used to. The only player that I can think of that still attacks the game regularly is touhy

Positives
- watson has improved/shown a lot more than people expected
- cachia & curnow has performed well
- less blowouts during losses
- we have overcome some bogey teams
- we have overcome etihad
edit: lucas has been another positive

Overall, whilst I wasnt expecting much this year, should we fail to make the 8, then the year has been a failure. A change of coach was always going to set us back initially although I'm not convinced that Mick's defensive game style is what is suited to our list (which was built on speed & ball movement to break zones).

Performance wise, this year
our worst > worst of previous years
our best << best of previous years
average performance < average performance of previous years

Effes · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:34 pm

4thchicken wrote:

Overall, whilst I wasnt expecting much this year, should we fail to make the 8, then the year has been a failure. A change of coach was always going to set us back initially although I'm not convinced that Mick's defensive game style is what is suited to our list (which was built on speed & ball movement to break zones).

Agree with a lot of your points chicken, however your signature suggests higher expectations. :razz:

Bluey44 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:36 pm

4thchicken wrote:

Performance wise, this year
our worst > worst of previous years
our best << best of previous years
average performance < average performance of previous years

This.

Not sure if we've gone two steps forward, or two back.

I feel as though I should be happier that we are slightly more consistent,
but there haven't been the same random highs* this year as a spectator that I got used to under Ratts.

*Nb. Not the type of "highs" that Essendon** get

limestone · **Joined:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:37 am **Posts:** 770

The Rhino wrote:

:lol:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=27380&p=1368552&hilit=walker#p1368552

Sugarcane wrote on Sunday 31st March 2013 wrote:

I was calling for him (Walker) to go back at end of NAB Cup because he looked lost as a forward in Malthouses new game plan.

...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33235&p=1437124#p1437124

Sugarcane wrote on Saturday August 10th 2013 wrote:

Walker is soft and poor one on one so shouldn't be a defender

Sugarcane wrote on Thursday August 8 2013 wrote:

Walker is great at rebounding but one on one he is a nightmare
I don't understand why he doesn't play wing given his running ability and so his marking prowess
Maybe it's his lack of nous with ball in hand??

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Feb 8th 2012 wrote:

Ellard, Curnow, Robinson are all hard mids who have come on since last year They have made Brock redundant - just as well as he was struggling anyhow

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Jun 01 2011 wrote:

Gotta love Robbo
Reckon he would be among first half dozen picked every week for the benchmark in hardness and spirit he brings to the team
How good will he be when he finally develops poise

...

Sugarcane wrote on Wednesday August 8th 2013 wrote:

We should all be rejoicing Robbo has been dropped. He's hopeless

Sugarcane wrote on Mon May 23rd, 2011 wrote:

And to think Hughes got criticised for taking Lucas over a tall

Can never have enough mids

Sugarcane wrote on Mon Jun 20 2011 wrote:

Who'd have thought we'd be doing well with 7 rookies in the team, + a 26 year old recruit from SA??

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Feb 08 2012 wrote:

Oh goodie we have a know it all. Synbad, why don;t you tll me the quality on ballers we could have taken in the draft instead of the flankers we have taken?

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Mar 21 2012 wrote:

Synbad you really need to chill out. You're not just looking the fool but a tad crazy too. The club was unlucky to not make the prelim last year. Injuries to Gibbs, Krooze, Waite, Jamo cruelled us. Recruitment has been good. Robbo was an inspired pick, and we have done well with Rookies like Elard, Curnow, Touhy etc.
Rushing players back from injury is a concern though, but hardly deserves the crazed fits you have been on.

...

Sugarcane wrote on Sat Aug 10 2013 wrote:

t's difficult when you have a bozo as president
The recruitment over the last 5-10 years has been deplorable
Inability to read the landscape
Hopefully now with Geelongs previous 2IC and the experienced Malthouse we will get things right but I suspect success is not realistic for the Judd, Waite, Carrazzo, Simpson, Scotland, McLean era

Sugarcane wrote on Thurs Aug 8 2012 wrote:

The MC know more about the players and the game than you right??

Sugarcane wrote on Thurs Aug 8 2012 wrote:

Seriously the second guessing by keyboard phantoms amazes me. I want Graham in blue as much as the next person but I trust the MC and Mick know what they're doing

Sugarcane wrote on Wed Aug 7 2012 wrote:

Mick thinks a quarter of our best side won't be there when we make a tilt, I think it's closer to half frankly

Sugarcane wrote on Sat Aug 3 2012 wrote:

Next week Murphy and Betts should be relegated to VFL and Graham and Menzel take their spot. Murphy has been insipid with or without injuries

Little bit difficult to take you seriously some times...

I'm never gonna start an argument with you Rhino. :lol:

Rod Waddell · **Joined:** Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am **Posts:** 1650

Hey Rhino do you know Hannaberry of the Swans is your nephew? Damn good footballer.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:31 pm

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Rod Waddell wrote:

Hey Rhino do you know Hannaberry of the Swans is your nephew? Damn good footballer.

As I said in another thread - possibly the most complete midfielder in the game at the moment.

If I were starting a new franchise tomorrow, I'd build it around him and Rory Sloane.

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

Rhino, how does it feel to have 6 wickets? Your body holding up?

The Rhino · **Joined:** Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm **Posts:** 6923

Ashes Couch-back has contributed solidly to paying off my osteo's HECS..

David King and Mark Robinson each weigh in on Carlton's woes

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