Can McCarthy mark ?

Doesn't have the footy smarts.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

What is the accepted duration of the 'Big Blokes Take Longer' Rule! How long do you keep a clutch of big blokes in the magoos hoping that somehow one of them turns out OK? When is it time to cut your losses and look further afield?

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

4yrs with ample opportunity. Both have been hampered by injury. Mitchell has had a year to get a good run at it.

Unless we replace them we need some depth.

I agree that Bellchambers is a better, more rounded ruckman than either Warnock or Hampson. In fact I suspect he may even be a better, more rounded ruckman than Kreuzer. But regardless, there's no way we're going to delist or somehow trade away 2 senior AFL standard ruckman, and then somehow or other trade in another senior AFL ruckman who's a slight upgrade on what we've got. As disappointed as we might be with how they're performing, we're not going to turn what is one of our few relative list strengths and turn it into a list weakness, and sabotage our position at the draft in doing so.

Can't argue with this Synbad......reading that list feels like a slap on the head with a dead fish....a bloody big one!

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"The Ox is Slow but the Earth is Patient" and don't forget it!

The way he publically paraded the candidates then picked the captain
His constant blame of others ( bench, fitness, soft players) especially publically.
Playing injured players
Game plan and team selections, structures (and we still get hammered through the middle)
Playing our best players out of position
Berating Waite publically
Playing a young player for one quarter or two then dropping him
Defensive midfield tags

You do realise that they haven't been on the list for 3 years, yet?
Don't you?

Top 20 don't count for nought if you don't choose 'em right...
Look at MFC & unfortunately at us in the past.

Some things need to said. Waite deserved everything he gets for being a selfish player, and leader at that. Softness, let the world know - fitness, JC is walking & without a lot of dispute from most.

Yes let the world know we won't fight back because it's undisciplined and we won't stand up for ourselves.
Yes we are soft but shouldn't show any aggression and stand up for each other or our captain because we might get dropped or fined and berated in public.
Savage your captain as a wimp to the public instead of savaging everyone behind closed doors. Yes they need to be said but they need to be said in private and acted in public.
Keep it in house and discipline your players.
The only thing he has achieved is to state that the team is fractured soft and he can't control them.

Dare I say it look at !@#$%^& Collingwood and the O'brien incident.
None of your business so !@#$ off.

That's how you handle your team, don't talk just lead by actions and example.

Yes. That's why I said they should be on the list 4yrs to get a good understanding of whether they will make it.

In simple terms give them another year.

Well I for one am more than happy that Malthouse has stuck the boot in. Some of these guys have had it too easy for too long. Too many passengers. Malthouse will turn the pressure cooker up and any one that can't take the heat is gone. Exposing players is something that needs to happen. We were never good enough this year because we still have dead wood. Look how much we depended on Judd, a lot of others were there for the ride. As soon as Judd slowed up so did we.
Gonna be a clean out and top up at the end of the year, with players we need and hopfully the year after we can pull in the missing pieces.
Gotta say I've been heart broken this year but at least we have the bombers thread.

The point is he hasn't stuck the boot in.
He has been self indulgent and dismissive in his position of authority.
He has wasted a year by not disciplining the senior (out of form) playing group and by that showing poor leadership and example.
By the end of the year there will be changes to the list but Malthouse has not brought anything of value or growth to the players this year.
Whether he will make a difference next year remains to be seen but he has totally failed to inspire a general improvement in this years playing group making this year a total flop.
Next year is a different kettle of fish but anything would be an improvement from this year unless he can’t snag any good assistant coaches then watch the “excuses” come out again.

It might not be as simple as that, sometimes it just amounts to prolonging the inevitable. I'm sure who we've kept on a list has warped our perspective in the past. We keep players because we lack strength in certain areas but when it comes to finding players more suitable, it never happens because we have failed to clear the space on the list.

It goes like this, do I think we have given them enough time, the answer is 'no'. Do I think either will make it, the answer to that one is also 'no'. If that's the case, it's anybodies guess which way we should go.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Not sure of old Malty myself but if there is improvement next year perhaps some of that was due to this year which means it hasn't been wasted but we will not know this until we see next year's result. Truth is all this depends on what his aims are this year, not what he says they are to the media, but what they actually are. The end of next year will decide this year's rating. If we are at the same place next year then I shudder to think how long it might take.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I did a little exercise. I looked at the players at each club (except the two news clubs) to see what their young stocks were like, and to compare them to ours. I picked a random cut off of being 23 years of age as of today (7 Aug). That is, if they turned 24 yesterday, they didn't make the list. Close cut offs at Carlton were Kreuzer, Garlett and Laidler. There were plenty at other clubs, obviously.

I've put the list in club ladder order. I've picked out 5 who I think are or are among the best of each club (in red), then listed significant others. I know more about the kids at some clubs than others (interstate clubs I haven't seen play a lot), so you may have different (and more accurate) assessments of each club's kids, but that wasn't really the point of the exercise. It was more to get an idea of what each club has coming through, how it's going to be placed in 5 years, whether there are a core of kids to build a club around. Quite frankly, for us, it makes depressing reading. Every club above us, and many below, have significantly better kids on their list than we do. Not good when you're currently sitting 9th on the ladder...


Hawthorn

Breust (22)
Gunston (21)
Hill (20)
Savage (22)
Whitecross (23)

Shiels (22)
Duryea (22)
Schoenmakers (22)
Anderson (19)

Sydney

Hannebery (22)
Mitchell (20)
Reid (21)
Rohan (22)
Johnson (21)

Rampe (23)
Lamb (20)
Parker (20)
B Jack (19)

Geelong

Christensen (22)
Motlop (22)
Duncan (22)
Smedts (21)
T Hunt (22)

Vardy (22)
Caddy (20)
Guthrie (20)
Horlin-Smith (20)
Blicavs (22)
Menzel (21)
Murdoch (21)
Schroder (20)
Stringer (22)
Thurlow (19)

Fremantle

Fyfe (21)
Hill (23)
De Boer (23)
Walters (22)
Clarke (23)

Morabito (21)
Neale (20)
C Pearce (22)
Suban (23)
Hannath (22)

Essendon*

Zaharakis (23)
Carlisle (21)
Heppell (21)
Hibberd (23)
Hurley (23)

Daniher (19)
Melksham (21)
Kommer (22)
Pears (23)
Colyer (21)
Dell’Olio (23)

Collingwood

Beams (23)
Sidebottom (22)
Blair (23)
Elliott (20)
Fasolo (21)

Seedsman (21)
Sinclair (21)
Grundy (19)
Keeffe (23)
Kennedy (19)
Mooney (20)
J Thomas (21)
Williams (20)

Richmond

Cotchin (23)
Martin (22)
Rance (23)
Vlastuin (19)
Grimes (22)

Astbury (22)
Batchelor (21)
Conca (20)
Dea (21)
Ellis (20)
Helbig (21)
Vickery (23)

Port

Hartlett (22)
Wingard (20)
Wines (19)
Broadbent (23)
Ebert (23)

Butcher (22)
Hitchcock (23)
Jonas (22)
Mitchell (23)
Moore (22)
Neade (19)
O’Shea (21)
Pittard (22)
Redden (22)
Shaw (19)
Trengove (22)

Carlton

Henderson (23)
Tuohy (23)
McInnes (21)
Bootsma (20)
Yarran (22)

Menzel (18)
Curnow (23)
Lucas (22)
Bell (22)
Graham (19)
Buckley (20)
Cachia (22)
Casboult (23)
Dale (20)
Davies (22)
McCarthy (21)
Mitchell (21)
O’Keeffe (23)
Temay (19)
Watson (21)

North

Ziebell (22)
Atley (20)
Bastinac (22)
Black (22)
Cunnington (22)

Mullett (21)
Daw (22)
Harper (21)
Hine (21)
Jacobs (21)
Macmillan (20)
Wright (23)

West Coast

Darling (21)
Naitanui (23)
Gaff (21)
Shuey (23)
S Selwood (23)

Smith (23)
Brennan (23)
Lycett (20)
Sheppard (22)

Brisbane

Rich (23)
Bewick (23)
Mayes (19)
Redden (22)
Banfield (23)

Cornelius (23)
Golby (21)
Green (20)
Longer (20)
Polec (20)
Rockliff (23)

Adelaide

Sloane (23)
Walker (23)
Talia (21)
Crouch (19)
Jaensch (23)

Petrenko (23)
Wright (23)

Dogs

Dahlhaus (20)
Liberatore (21)
Wallis (20)
Hrovat (19)
Stringer (19)

Cordy (23)
Howard (22)
Hunter (19)
Johannisen (20)
Jones (22)
Macrae (19)
Roughead (22)
Smith (20)
Stevens (22)
Talia (20)
Wood (23)

St Kilda

Steven (23)
Hickey (22)
Lee (22)
Siposs (20)
Roberton (22)

Newnes (21)
Ross (20)
Saad (23)
Simpkin (23)
Stanley (22)
Wright (19)

Melbourne

Viney (19)
Blease (22)
Toumpas (19)
Howe (23)
Trengove (21)

Clisby (23)
Fitzpatrick (22)
Gawn (21)
Jetta (23)
Kent (19)
T McDonald (20)
McKenzie (23)
Strauss (23)
Tapscott (22)
Terlich (23)
Watts (22)

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I don't think you can say the players haven't tried, we have not been belted in any game and have been competitive is the vast majority

The effort has been there and while Bryce's comments seemed odd when you look at the ladder I think this is what he was referring to

I think there are some players who just don't have the mental fortitude which translates to sustained effort and hardness and belief, and there's not much Mick can do about this it would appear

I think Mick has acted swiftly, declaring changes will be made and actually telling individuals this before the season is out. He's not mucking about

He's been in this caper long enough to see what players have that inner drive and which ones don't

Remember Mick has said all along it is not about wins and losses. It's the process. Whether you buy into Mick I suppose depends on whether you buy into his theory about 'process'. Personally I do because I think sometimes you have to take a step or two back before you can go forward. He is implementing a new game style, trying to make the players more defensively focused, and all the while trying to figure out which players have some ticker. He has managed to get a more even, sustained effort by the side at large , but that hasn't meant a marked improvement in win loss terms, but maybe that is because while the effort is there the game style hasn't as yet been bedded down to the extent it just comes naturally and the players are mastering it. Remember when we have won flags in the past, it is rare teams click and all players are on the same page and all players have the 'right stuff' and it all gels together effortlessly. Mick is trying to build a side to get to that level but it takes time. Time to master the game plan. Time to find out who has the right attitude and who doesn't. Time to replenish an aging midfield.

I also think the players lack that true inner belief that is needed to beat the top sides. We have been competitive against the top sides but just fall away , don't go the distance. Mick keeps talking about this, about how the best sides are more consistent. This group of players have failed to stick it out against the best this year and also in the last five years. Over the journey this list has won very few games against the top sides. Doesnt this tell you this list lacks that inner belief? That's what it tells me.
Tells me the leadership is not up to the standard required, and the list is also falling short.

I think there's been a misunderstanding re how Mick will get the best out of this list. He is not a miracle working witch doctor who can get into the minds of soft footballers and make them all tougher and make them all believe they are champions. We have shrinks for this who clearly cannot wave such a wand. It's folly to think Mick is a psychological miracle worker. But what he will do is bring 30 odd years experience and an understanding of what is needed, and a game plan hopefully that is still up to date. I have no doubt he will sort out the boys from the men and knows what sort of players we need. His comment in the NAB Cup after Bryce played a good game on ball that "he is a big bodied midfielder, the type of player we need" told me he is fully aware of one of our list deficiencies.

The biggest query I have is whether his game plan is appropriate and relevant these days, but even there I have faith in him because unlike some older coaches he has shown time and again he can evolve, and is not so stubborn as to see the game plan needs tweaking.

Game plan is an interesting one.
The avg disposals per game this year for the top teams has dropped significantly. 420 compared to 375 (hawks, syd sample). My guess, corridor football.
Ours has gone up from last year 345 to 355 approx. i think because we go longer route home (boundary). Whats scary is in 2010, pies were close to 450. Even accounting for a general decline, we are miles off the possession count we need to be a top 4 team with current gameplan.

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'‘He had an enormous capacity to pump himself up and get the best out of himself when it mattered. He had a fire in his belly – a passion for the contest like few other players’' -- D Parkin in reference to the dominator