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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
If Eddie wants to chase the dollars under free agency then he makes the dilemma of which of the 3 amigos to keep a hell of a lot easier.

And his spot in the forward line is taken by Menzel.

We utilise the compo pick we get for Eddie for another young mid fielder.

As I said elsewhere I would hate to see Eddie go because apart from Fev he was one of our shining on field lights when we were really shit from 2005 through to 2007, but we move on and try to improve our list.


And Agro.....not critical I know; but he is much loved at the Club....and by supporters.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Warby wrote:
AGRO wrote:
If Eddie wants to chase the dollars under free agency then he makes the dilemma of which of the 3 amigos to keep a hell of a lot easier.

And his spot in the forward line is taken by Menzel.

We utilise the compo pick we get for Eddie for another young mid fielder.

As I said elsewhere I would hate to see Eddie go because apart from Fev he was one of our shining on field lights when we were really shit from 2005 through to 2007, but we move on and try to improve our list.


And Agro.....not critical I know; but he is much loved at the Club....and by supporters.



Warbs, we all love him, I love him, my kids love him, the players love him, the club loves him, but if Eddie decides to go via Free Agency then there is not a whole lot we can do about it.


I'd probably move on, get another Eddie but there would be a 10 minute period there where I would just be inconsolable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Warby wrote:
Small goalkicking forwards are still hot property....look at Dahlhaus.. Milne..Elliott and Krakouer for instance.


Wha?

Dahlhaus has been ordinary this year, largely because he hasn't been able to make that move from permanent small forward to any impact going through the middle, and also not being able to shake a tag. Value on the market would be minimal. Third rounder maybe.

Milne's record in finals speaks for itself, and you only have to look back under Grant Thomas how they tried to trade him at his peak and got nowhere. Krakouer's played a handful of games all year and been ordinary in most of them. Almost certain to be delisted at the end of the year. I like Elliott. I reckon he's more of a midfielder who can play forward than a forward who can go midfield though. Maybe Fasolo or Blair is a better example?

The point is though - none of them (maybe Elliott) are worth jack on the market. We have a golden opportunity in that we would receive something for Betts in return that is inherently linked to his contract, B&F finishes, value, etc. rather than X club saying "We're giving you this, take it or leave it".

With the likelihood of the free agency compensation going at the end of the year, you're never going to get a better chance at adequate compensation for someone leaving under these circumstances.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I agree.

I wouldn't trade a player like Betts under any circumstances as it would rip the fabric if the club.

But if he wants to go under free agency and we can get a good compo pick for him then so be it.

As I have said the stars would align for us under this scenario as we already have 2 very good small forwards in Garlett and Yarran to replace him, we can also use Menzel in the role whilst he builds the tank to take his turn through the midfield, we free up some cap space, and we use the compo pick to draft a quality young mid fielder.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The Rhino wrote:
Warby wrote:
Small goalkicking forwards are still hot property....look at Dahlhaus.. Milne..Elliott and Krakouer for instance.


Wha?

Dahlhaus has been ordinary this year, largely because he hasn't been able to make that move from permanent small forward to any impact going through the middle, and also not being able to shake a tag. Value on the market would be minimal. Third rounder maybe.

Milne's record in finals speaks for itself, and you only have to look back under Grant Thomas how they tried to trade him at his peak and got nowhere. Krakouer's played a handful of games all year and been ordinary in most of them. Almost certain to be delisted at the end of the year. I like Elliott. I reckon he's more of a midfielder who can play forward than a forward who can go midfield though. Maybe Fasolo or Blair is a better example?

You're welcome to your opinion; but I don't agree with it.

It'll be a sad day at Carlton if Eddie leaves the Club....the amigos are very close.

I don't believe in losing good players in the hope of getting a better one or two; unless there's underlying problems with the player internally.

We had to lose a player we really need badly....to get Judd; and as great as Juddy is/was....we haven't advanced as we'd hoped.....yes......it's a complex situation.



The point is though - none of them (maybe Elliott) are worth jack on the market. We have a golden opportunity in that we would receive something for Betts in return that is inherently linked to his contract, B&F finishes, value, etc. rather than X club saying "We're giving you this, take it or leave it".

With the likelihood of the free agency compensation going at the end of the year, you're never going to get a better chance at adequate compensation for someone leaving under these circumstances.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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You're right, it's complex.

Unfortunately it can't be in the context of Player A for Player B, but rather Player A goes for the greater good of list management over the next 3 years, as its in such a shit position as it is now.

If Betts takes a paycut and a 2 year deal, he probably should stay. The money on offer from Adelaide, and I *believe* a three year deal with an option of four, is something we shouldn't match. Especially if it means jeopardising losing Gibbs for nothing the year after.

Unless hard calls are made at the end of the year, I see us delisting anywhere from 7-12 guys who aren't up to it, and replacing them with 5 more who are speculative at best.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.


I realise that mate......I keep thinking of losing Kennedy to get Juddy who is/was magnificent but....gee; it was a bigger price than we thought at the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Warby wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.


I realise that mate......I keep thinking of losing Kennedy to get Juddy who is/was magnificent but....gee; it was a bigger price than we thought at the time.


Two different things Kennedy was part of a trade - a trade which I agree with you that we payed overs for, Picks 3 & 20 should have been enough to get it down, giving Kennedy was just pulling our pants down, and seeing him killing it at WC just makes it worse.

We wouldn't be giving up Betts in a trade like we did with Kennedy. We gave away Kennedy by choice, under Free Trade there is really no choice. :mad:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:13 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
Warby wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.


I realise that mate......I keep thinking of losing Kennedy to get Juddy who is/was magnificent but....gee; it was a bigger price than we thought at the time.


Two different things Kennedy was part of a trade - a trade which I agree with you that we payed overs for, Picks 3 & 20 should have been enough to get it down, giving Kennedy was just pulling our pants down, and seeing him killing it at WC just makes it worse.

We wouldn't be giving up Betts in a trade like we did with Kennedy. We gave away Kennedy by choice, under Free Trade there is really no choice. :mad:


As we said......typical AFL......complex....unnecessarily so IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Robert Walls

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agro.....rip the fabric of the side apart.........ripping it up might be a good thing!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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london blue wrote:
agro.....rip the fabric of the side apart.........ripping it up might be a good thing!!!


GrassHopper type "Oh Confusious you may have a point there...when is a tear a tear for the worse?"

Confisious (LB) " Time will tell grass hopper. If one cannot make decisions for their betterment then it is better to allow others to make decisions for them."

Grasshopper type "How wise you are old man"

Confusious "How does Agro feel about that?"

GrassHopper " The same as you wise man...when we have no choice, w have no choice...or is that a choice? Choice."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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The Rhino wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:
Not sure we should let him go. He actually looks good when given a run in the middle.

As far as the position becoming irrelevant......what else was Mitch Morton used for in last years GF? He's 2 goals went a long way to winning the flag.


Don't you think its concerning though that ever since he came to the club, he was touted as one day becoming a midfielder, and it's never happened? Development issue or laziness on his part?

I think Mitch Morton is a million to one exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself. Just as clubs didn't all rush out and pick up Nick Davis types in 2005 much to the chagrin of KFC.


No more concerning than Gibbs our no.1 pick who after 7 years has not had any impact through the middle & we drafted him as a potential gun mid & we got Eddie cheaply through the rookie draft.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Robert Walls

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[GoogleVideo] [/GoogleVideo]
bondiblue wrote:
london blue wrote:
agro.....rip the fabric of the side apart.........ripping it up might be a good thing!!!


GrassHopper type "Oh Confusious you may have a point there...when is a tear a tear for the worse?"

Confisious (LB) " Time will tell grass hopper. If one cannot make decisions for their betterment then it is better to allow others to make decisions for them."

Grasshopper type "How wise you are old man"

Confusious "How does Agro feel about that?"

GrassHopper " The same as you wise man...when we have no choice, w have no choice...or is that a choice? Choice."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :smoking: :smoking: :smoking:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
Warby wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.


I realise that mate......I keep thinking of losing Kennedy to get Juddy who is/was magnificent but....gee; it was a bigger price than we thought at the time.


Two different things Kennedy was part of a trade - a trade which I agree with you that we payed overs for, Picks 3 & 20 should have been enough to get it down, giving Kennedy was just pulling our pants down, and seeing him killing it at WC just makes it worse.

We wouldn't be giving up Betts in a trade like we did with Kennedy. We gave away Kennedy by choice, under Free Trade there is really no choice. :mad:


Re-writing history again.

We did not give him away by choice.

Picks 3 & 20 weren't going to get it done. There was never any suggestion it would.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Warby wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Warby, under free agency if Eddie wants to go he goes. Doesnt matter whether you or I or the club don't want to lose a good player or not.


I realise that mate......I keep thinking of losing Kennedy to get Juddy who is/was magnificent but....gee; it was a bigger price than we thought at the time.


Two different things Kennedy was part of a trade - a trade which I agree with you that we payed overs for, Picks 3 & 20 should have been enough to get it down, giving Kennedy was just pulling our pants down, and seeing him killing it at WC just makes it worse.

We wouldn't be giving up Betts in a trade like we did with Kennedy. We gave away Kennedy by choice, under Free Trade there is really no choice. :mad:


Re-writing history again.

We did not give him away by choice.

Picks 3 & 20 weren't going to get it done. There was never any suggestion it would.



What are you talking about??

Please don't take issue with me every time you think you can score a point?

Your tiresome and boring. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:20 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Rod Waddell wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:
Not sure we should let him go. He actually looks good when given a run in the middle.

As far as the position becoming irrelevant......what else was Mitch Morton used for in last years GF? He's 2 goals went a long way to winning the flag.


Don't you think its concerning though that ever since he came to the club, he was touted as one day becoming a midfielder, and it's never happened? Development issue or laziness on his part?

I think Mitch Morton is a million to one exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself. Just as clubs didn't all rush out and pick up Nick Davis types in 2005 much to the chagrin of KFC.


No more concerning than Gibbs our no.1 pick who after 7 years has not had any impact through the middle & we drafted him as a potential gun mid & we got Eddie cheaply through the rookie draft.



I'd trade Gibbs in a package for the no.1 pick in a heartbeat. Gibbs + Yarran for a brute forward will change the complexion of our side.

Its a real shame he is off the table, as we could atone for 2 floundering draft picks.

He is just going to float around for another 6 years. Really if he was going to become the gun we wanted, he would have shown it by now. His trade currency is at its peak. 2 more years of the same and he will be too old and worth nothing.

To me, it's absolutely foolish not to trade these two for Boyd. It's worth the risk. Unless Malthouse changes the way we develop players.

To be fair, Gibbs is the poster boy for poor development. Should have played middle from day and stayed there - in the 2nds then 1sts, look at Crouch in Adelaide!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:20 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..i think Gibbs versatility, and his ability to perform well in that wide variety of roles will see him retained.. ..and i also believe he has still untapped potential that may be finally becoming realised..

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:20 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..i don't think eggy betts will leave thru F.A, there's more to his connection to the club than just the $$s..

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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I would put gibbs on the trade table and see what we get 6yrs and we are still waiting enough.


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