They have been injured all their careers have they,since they have come back have they shown anything, casboult maybe the rest average vfl players.
Henderson fell into rottens lap , fact is he wanted Bradshaw,he said get stuffed so we fluked Henderson.
What would you know about the influence he has had around the club, you an employee or are you a mind reader, 5years v 9months enough said.

It's only flawed when it doesn't suit the value of your argument.

It's the best way to judge the value of two competitors with the same list.[/quote]


Actually, lists are never really the same. They change week to week. Also players get older...yes it happen to footballers, not just mere mortals. In Ratts' halcyon years, Judd, Scotland, Walker Carazzo and Simspon were two-three years younger. They're now about one-two years away from retirement.

Off you go to hammer down that stake, prepare a mound of kindling and organise pamphlets to call all Carlton supporters to witness the burning of MM...One condition. He sees out his first contract. If his 3 year median indicators are worse than Ratten's best three year indicators, I'll light the match.
Until then, you can carry on as much as you like. MM is coach, like it or lump it.

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

It's only flawed when it doesn't suit the value of your argument.

It's the best way to judge the value of two competitors with the same list.[/quote]


The names on the list may be the same to a great extent but that doesn't make it the same list. The player's who provided our main drive in 2011 such as Judd, Carazzo, Simpson, Scotland and others are all two years older and at the stage of their careers where that two extra years means they no longer can pull the whole team along with them on their backs.

What we have seen is that the group under them who should have taken over those responsibilities are either unwilling or incapable to do so, that isn't the doing of MM who has only been in the job for 8 months.

It seems to me the problem lies in the long term development of players coupled with recruiting the wrong types, unfortunately we are pretty much bereft of players who display any type of leadership qualities.

Go figure

_________________
"I had to eat"

How many rising star nominations have we had in the past 5 years. Two or three? Kruezer, Gartlett and Yarran. I'm not even sure Kruezer scored a nom

Since Yarran got a nomination in 2010, there have been 62 nominees. Carlton have had zero.

The only team to have had no nominees in that time is Carlton

Geelong 5 Hawthorn 4 BTW

Shaun Grigg and Aaron Joseph also got nominated for CFC

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Our problems reflect the fact that our players have no personality (I say philosophically) so putting the onus on the next messiah is a moot point. If we were to recruit Boyd it should be because we think highly of him as a player and think he would be part of what we need at the club, no more, no less. It's funny how Judd's okay and Boyd isn't. The difference here is that we have to start afresh. Judd's acquisition served as vindication and was a deflection from what was really at the heart of the club.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Yeah! Exactly!

(...I think?)

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

..krooz got 1 early on in his career, after half a dozen games or so.. ..yep for yazz and garlett, also grigg and joseph.. ..lucas too from memory..?.. [or maybe not]

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

..the Judd deal in isolation wasn't too bad, the problem was that we didn't stop, after getting that deal done.. ..instead of being smart, and drafting well.. ..we drafted 'cream' and ignored kpps until forced to via draft.. ..and paid overs for 'needs based' trades.. ..knockers and mclean on the back of the judd trade was just too much.. ..and not just the trades themselves, but the good coin that went to those 3 players... .knockers and mclean especially cost us far too much at the trade table, and in contracts for what they gave back.. ..so much coin tied up in the champ, and then two other players traded in to be the missing piece even though they hardly ever got on the park..

..no wonder our list management is stuffed..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

The real problems were exposed last year.
We all knew we were struggling through the midfield... This was a direct result of poor dragging and trading over years.
We didn't address that but a coach was never going to be enough.

If we do everything right now it will take three yo for years as we also need to replace a half a dozen important players and create leadership.

Simple.

Mick won't be there for that though.
The board need to be accountable for driving us to this position over a half a dozen years.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Good to see Mathieson has teed off

(sorry there's a pay wall)

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... m-breached

_________________
"I had to eat"

Well said Bruce.

As much as I agree with Bruce I do not agree with blame put in the recruiting dept alone.
Higher up they were paying their wages and should have been watching what we're dragging.

I fear again heads will roll but no independent review of the footy club from top to bottom will be asked for.

So it goes on.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

..it's the carlton way.. .one day, i hope we can achieve semi-professionalism.. .wouldn't that be something..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Lol.....Malthouse can coach but cannot make 8th spot with a full list but others can't because they did 't make finals with a quarter of the list available.

Love the guy but excuses....

Three big rocks we need to (and am sure we will) address at season's end:

1) Bring in better assistant coaches (incl development experts)
2) Turnover the list - think we have to be smart as well as aggressive. eg. No point gutting the joint to get Boyd if he then has no-one to get it to him. It is not a strategy to get one guy to rescue the whole mob. Too much uncertainty. We don't have the culture to enable this; see below.
3) Change the culture. Especially the players, but this may well need to start much higher up (see Synners long time claims...). At the end of the day, the players need to GENUINELY commit to being a great team, like Geelong famously did end 2006. And Swans before them.

Notes:
- Am glad Malthouse is there. I have much more confidence that he knows how to drive the 3 changes above than with Ratts
- We have already made steps towards improved recruiting
- Malthouse's recruiting philosophy is polar opposite to what we've done and we'll see that come through in our recruiting and, trading: he likes guys who perform in big games much more than guys with the potential to be the most skillful player at the club. That's why he picked up Thomas and Sidebottom, where we have gone for Yarran and Menzel (hopefully, Malthouse will drive Menzel to be both skilfull and big game performer)
- [b]Judd was necessary [/b]at the time. The fact that we haven't delivered under him is not about the deal or him. It is about not building up others around him with the capacity to capitalise on the opportunities we've had.
- In retrospect, our recruiting/development has been average. BUT, at the time, McLean made sense, even though there were also good arguments against, there was a logic to it. We were all looking for a hard inside mid to help release Judd. McLean is now playing that role, albeit 3yrs late. Jordan Gysberts can't get a game. Don't think we really lost much on that one.
- The way I see it, we had the following No.1 choices: Gibbs/Kruezer Vs Leuenberger/Cotchin. Now looks like we pulled the wrong lever. But, at the time, I reckon most other clubs would have done the same. At worst, it was a 50/50 proposition.
- Watson Vs Darling - plenty other teams also passed on Darling. It was an overtly conscious decision, in the context of the disruption Fev had caused and the well known cultural problems at the club.
- Mitchell, McCarthy etc... were always long shots with upside potential. Hasn't worked out.
- Think we should make sure Graham & Menzel get a shot this year. And we need to find out whether Buckley can make it. BUT, Buckley is at best 50-50 in my view. His attitude holds him in good stead but I don't think many other clubs would have drafted him. Graham has been doing well. BUT I'm not sure any of them is bashing down the door. It is more a case of us being disillusioned with the current group and looking for alternatives. Doesn't augur well. Put simply, we have too many potentials struggling even at VFL level.