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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Hey Mick,

Just watched OTC.

GFY.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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cimm1979 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
An apology....ok I like it...so where are the other twenty two?

BTW...Murph's presser...looked like a rabbit in the headlights....Unfortunateky I couldn't se any pain and anger


That's because there is none, he's given up, why would you put in for a bunch of soft corks like this outfit.

Busted shoulder x 2, busted face x 1, puts his head over the ball gets poleaxed and hasn't had one team mate take a bullet for him the whole time he's been at the club.

Now he's got grampa powder balls as his coach for the next 3 years. Yeeehaaaaaa!!!


You know.... If they're worried about confrontation with opposition they can do it in numbers.
But they should always never let above if the hook.

Murphy might had needed his team mates to remonstrate but he doesnt for others
Judd remonstrates for free kicks or if he is being scragged but he doesn't for others.

Self sacrifice is not something we do

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
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I am a religious watcher of 360 and OTC. Usually watch later in the night once the kids are in bed.

Was seriously thinking of avoiding them tonight but cimm is making it hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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MPH78 wrote:
I am a religious watcher of 360 and OTC. Usually watch later in the night once the kids are in bed.

Was seriously thinking of avoiding them tonight but cimm is making it hard.


You've heard it all since Friday.

It's just been concentrated for your viewing pleasure.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Scotty12000 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
An apology....ok I like it...so where are the other twenty two?

BTW...Murph's presser...looked like a rabbit in the headlights....Unfortunateky I couldn't se any pain and anger

Why would there be any pain and anger? While MM is fielding the ire of the members and the jeers of the football world, this is what Murph (and Gibbsy) were up to Saturday night:

Image
LIVING THE DREAM



If I had to, I would

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 1378
MPH78 wrote:
I am a religious watcher of 360 and OTC. Usually watch later in the night once the kids are in bed.

Was seriously thinking of avoiding them tonight but cimm is making it hard.


Nothing untoward other than some home truths but certainly the most coverage we've had all year.


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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2864
Not sure what all this vitriol towards Malthouse is about. Here's my take on the lay of the land, from the outside looking in, of course...

Malthouse walked into a club that had been blighted by poor everything - poor management, poor leadership, poor coaching, poor recruiting and poor player development. That's all been discussed ad nauseum. I suspect he wanted to make changes to the list last year, but his hands were tired by appaling list management that saw all our fringe dwellers still contracted, and not much room in the cap. So he did the only thing he could do, which is be positive, pump up the list. Perhaps he wasn't aware quite the dire situation the list was in, but he certainly is now.

Next step for him is to devise and teach a new game plan. That takes time. Anyone expecting the players to pick it up and run with it straight away was going to be disappointed. For me, Malthouse and Carlton was always going to be 2014 and beyond.

To Malthouse's credit, he was prepared to adjust and adapt as he learned about the strengths and weaknesses of the list. Whether he goes in to 2014 with the current game plan remains to be seen. Interestingly, the top group of teams all play quite a different style of footy. Sydney are contested beasts with a strong defensive mindset, and now a super dangerous slingshot offence to go with it. Hawthorn do their precision kicking thing, slicing through. Geelong plays manic, down the corridor attacking football, backed up by players who are super hard at the ball. Freo plays the Ross Lyon strangle. Which is the right game plan? We'll know come the last Saturday in September. Nevertheless, Malthouse has to decide whether the game plan he wants to embed at Carlton for the next 3-5 years is going to be good enough to eventually challenge.

We have a list of players with terrible habits and no leadership. One way skiers, no one doing the hard work for others and now no one who can take a game by the scruff of it's neck and turn it around. Judd used to, but can't anymore. Murphy has never done it. Can't recall anyone else on our list who has done it. When you think of the number of players who can and do do it at the top clubs, it says plenty.

And for those who think that we are no better off this year than last year, I think it's important not to underestimate the Judd factor. He has been the one player (the other was Fevola) who could turn a game or win a game off his own back. We one plenty of games over the last 5 years on the back of Judd. If we had the Judd of 2 or 3 years ago playing this year, I have no doubt we would have won half the games we've lost this year, on the back of how he could turn a game.

This list is in dire need of reconstruction. People talk about defence and a key forward, but out biggest problem, as noted by many recently, is our midfield. Lack of depth, lack of elite talent once you go past Judd, Murphy, Gibbs on occasion and Carazzo. We badly miss Simpson's run through the midfield, which makes it even more ludicrous that we are playing him off half back when we have 8 half back flankers in the seconds.

But I digress.

It will take time for Malthouse to shape the list the way he wants it, and to change the culture and habits of the playing group, and find those who can provide the kind of leadership we need. But he has proven before that he can do it. His pride and ego mean that he will leave no stone unturned, of that I agree. Which is why I think there will be a massive clean out at the end of the season.

Malthouse can be hard to listen to sometimes. He is as abrasive in the media as he is fiercely loyal to and supportive of his players, which is why they always come to play for him and love him. I for one have much more confidence in Malthouse knowing how to get us out of this mess than if Ratten was still at the helm.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Image

MPH78 wrote:
... cimm is making it hard.


Is that her name?

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
Siegfried wrote:
Not sure what all this vitriol towards Malthouse is about. Here's my take on the lay of the land, from the outside looking in, of course...

Malthouse walked into a club that had been blighted by poor everything - poor management, poor leadership, poor coaching, poor recruiting and poor player development. That's all been discussed ad nauseum. I suspect he wanted to make changes to the list last year, but his hands were tired by appaling list management that saw all our fringe dwellers still contracted, and not much room in the cap. So he did the only thing he could do, which is be positive, pump up the list. Perhaps he wasn't aware quite the dire situation the list was in, but he certainly is now.

Next step for him is to devise and teach a new game plan. That takes time. Anyone expecting the players to pick it up and run with it straight away was going to be disappointed. For me, Malthouse and Carlton was always going to be 2014 and beyond.

To Malthouse's credit, he was prepared to adjust and adapt as he learned about the strengths and weaknesses of the list. Whether he goes in to 2014 with the current game plan remains to be seen. Interestingly, the top group of teams all play quite a different style of footy. Sydney are contested beasts with a strong defensive mindset, and now a super dangerous slingshot offence to go with it. Hawthorn do their precision kicking thing, slicing through. Geelong plays manic, down the corridor attacking football, backed up by players who are super hard at the ball. Freo plays the Ross Lyon strangle. Which is the right game plan? We'll know come the last Saturday in September. Nevertheless, Malthouse has to decide whether the game plan he wants to embed at Carlton for the next 3-5 years is going to be good enough to eventually challenge.

We have a list of players with terrible habits and no leadership. One way skiers, no one doing the hard work for others and now no one who can take a game by the scruff of it's neck and turn it around. Judd used to, but can't anymore. Murphy has never done it. Can't recall anyone else on our list who has done it. When you think of the number of players who can and do do it at the top clubs, it says plenty.

And for those who think that we are no better off this year than last year, I think it's important not to underestimate the Judd factor. He has been the one player (the other was Fevola) who could turn a game or win a game off his own back. We one plenty of games over the last 5 years on the back of Judd. If we had the Judd of 2 or 3 years ago playing this year, I have no doubt we would have won half the games we've lost this year, on the back of how he could turn a game.

This list is in dire need of reconstruction. People talk about defence and a key forward, but out biggest problem, as noted by many recently, is our midfield. Lack of depth, lack of elite talent once you go past Judd, Murphy, Gibbs on occasion and Carazzo. We badly miss Simpson's run through the midfield, which makes it even more ludicrous that we are playing him off half back when we have 8 half back flankers in the seconds.

But I digress.

It will take time for Malthouse to shape the list the way he wants it, and to change the culture and habits of the playing group, and find those who can provide the kind of leadership we need. But he has proven before that he can do it. His pride and ego mean that he will leave no stone unturned, of that I agree. Which is why I think there will be a massive clean out at the end of the season.

Malthouse can be hard to listen to sometimes. He is as abrasive in the media as he is fiercely loyal to and supportive of his players, which is why they always come to play for him and love him. I for one have much more confidence in Malthouse knowing how to get us out of this mess than if Ratten was still at the helm.

Great post


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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Siegfried wrote:
Not sure what all this vitriol towards Malthouse is about. Here's my take on the lay of the land, from the outside looking in, of course...

Malthouse walked into a club that had been blighted by poor everything - poor management, poor leadership, poor coaching, poor recruiting and poor player development. That's all been discussed ad nauseum. I suspect he wanted to make changes to the list last year, but his hands were tired by appaling list management that saw all our fringe dwellers still contracted, and not much room in the cap. So he did the only thing he could do, which is be positive, pump up the list. Perhaps he wasn't aware quite the dire situation the list was in, but he certainly is now.

Next step for him is to devise and teach a new game plan. That takes time. Anyone expecting the players to pick it up and run with it straight away was going to be disappointed. For me, Malthouse and Carlton was always going to be 2014 and beyond.

To Malthouse's credit, he was prepared to adjust and adapt as he learned about the strengths and weaknesses of the list. Whether he goes in to 2014 with the current game plan remains to be seen. Interestingly, the top group of teams all play quite a different style of footy. Sydney are contested beasts with a strong defensive mindset, and now a super dangerous slingshot offence to go with it. Hawthorn do their precision kicking thing, slicing through. Geelong plays manic, down the corridor attacking football, backed up by players who are super hard at the ball. Freo plays the Ross Lyon strangle. Which is the right game plan? We'll know come the last Saturday in September. Nevertheless, Malthouse has to decide whether the game plan he wants to embed at Carlton for the next 3-5 years is going to be good enough to eventually challenge.

We have a list of players with terrible habits and no leadership. One way skiers, no one doing the hard work for others and now no one who can take a game by the scruff of it's neck and turn it around. Judd used to, but can't anymore. Murphy has never done it. Can't recall anyone else on our list who has done it. When you think of the number of players who can and do do it at the top clubs, it says plenty.

And for those who think that we are no better off this year than last year, I think it's important not to underestimate the Judd factor. He has been the one player (the other was Fevola) who could turn a game or win a game off his own back. We one plenty of games over the last 5 years on the back of Judd. If we had the Judd of 2 or 3 years ago playing this year, I have no doubt we would have won half the games we've lost this year, on the back of how he could turn a game.

This list is in dire need of reconstruction. People talk about defence and a key forward, but out biggest problem, as noted by many recently, is our midfield. Lack of depth, lack of elite talent once you go past Judd, Murphy, Gibbs on occasion and Carazzo. We badly miss Simpson's run through the midfield, which makes it even more ludicrous that we are playing him off half back when we have 8 half back flankers in the seconds.

But I digress.

It will take time for Malthouse to shape the list the way he wants it, and to change the culture and habits of the playing group, and find those who can provide the kind of leadership we need. But he has proven before that he can do it. His pride and ego mean that he will leave no stone unturned, of that I agree. Which is why I think there will be a massive clean out at the end of the season.

Malthouse can be hard to listen to sometimes. He is as abrasive in the media as he is fiercely loyal to and supportive of his players, which is why they always come to play for him and love him. I for one have much more confidence in Malthouse knowing how to get us out of this mess than if Ratten was still at the helm.


Sums it all up :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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X3

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Leadership is the number one weakness in this list.
Midfield iss number two.
Depth is number three....

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Connolly: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 2pmdg.html

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Kaloyasena
Effes wrote:



Don't really give a tuppeny flower what that drug condoning apologist Rohan Connolly has to say, about my club.


:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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AGRO wrote:
Effes wrote:



Don't really give a tuppeny flower what that drug condoning apologist Rohan Connolly has to say, about my club.


:roll:


He does make some excellent points though. MM and the club shifting the goalposts on expectations.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Kaloyasena
Effes wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Effes wrote:



Don't really give a tuppeny flower what that drug condoning apologist Rohan Connolly has to say, about my club.


:roll:


He does make some excellent points though. MM and the club shifting the goalposts on expectations.




When he makes an excellent point about those drug taking cheats he barracks for let me know.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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cimm1979 wrote:
Hey Mick,

Just watched OTC.

GFY.


Could you say it to his face?

Didn't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 am
Posts: 356
Effes wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Effes wrote:



Don't really give a tuppeny flower what that drug condoning apologist Rohan Connolly has to say, about my club.


:roll:


He does make some excellent points though. MM and the club shifting the goalposts on expectations.
Tend to agree. The problems with the list were already evident last year but we chose not to do anything. Few of the fringe guys were contracted but that doesn't stop you from trading and cap space is only a problem if we planned on taking on more salary than we sent out. Instead we've wasted a season (and a fair chunk of cash) so Mick can assess the list and install a new game plan which is no more effective than the last one.


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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4842
Synbad wrote:
Leadership is the number one weakness in this list.
Midfield iss number two.
Depth is number three....


Oh, so you have changed number three from key forwards or key position players in general to 'depth'.

I wouldn't rank it in any particular order because from where we sit, that leads to trouble.

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 Post subject: Re: Apology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15848
in8 wrote:
Effes wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Effes wrote:



Don't really give a tuppeny flower what that drug condoning apologist Rohan Connolly has to say, about my club.


:roll:


He does make some excellent points though. MM and the club shifting the goalposts on expectations.
Tend to agree. The problems with the list were already evident last year but we chose not to do anything. Few of the fringe guys were contracted but that doesn't stop you from trading and cap space is only a problem if we planned on taking on more salary than we sent out. Instead we've wasted a season (and a fair chunk of cash) so Mick can assess the list and install a new game plan which is no more effective than the last one.



Most of those that we'll delist this year were contracted last year....think Davies, Joseph, Watson, etc, etc. nobody would have wanted them in a trade, and if we delisted them the salary falls under the cap. Don't tell me MM's hands weren't tied.

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