..exactly.. ..almost 1 year for the actual rehab post surgery, then another year to year and a half to get right back to best form once playing again.. ..especially for talls..

..Krooz after his comeback had injury pre-finals, and then soon into last season he had an injury setback to the knee and played the season thru, was worked far too hard right after his comeback from the acl, and by acl standards his was nasty....

..the under rating of what an acl injury will do to a player [especially a tall] with everything we know now and all the stories told by players suffering them just confounds me.. ..almost every player has talked about how long it took them to get back to their best after having a serious knee injury.. ..the sort of battering a ruck would take, especially a 1st ruck worked as hard as krooz was, would definately take a long time to truely recover.. ..it's much more time than the simple rehab to comeback game time..

..and with a player so young, the disruption to development is also huge, and a whole nother kind of setback.. ..he's actually done very well coming back off that blown knee, when you truely take everything into account..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Synbad, absolutely laughed my arse off at the "laying there and thinking of England" line. Funniest online comment seen all year.

Agree we have to play hard ball and let other clubs know they can't bully us. Same as anywhere is life, if you hit back hard enough, the bully thinks twice the next time. They do it to us because we don't hit back and it works. How many times do we see their taggers scrag our guys with no-one making the tagger pay for it?

Maybe next year the TC sponsorship should be a payment to a play suspended for flying the flag...

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I would like to thank Collingwood for helping me keep faith in my old man. He always told me that 'People are thick'.

I saw Chris Dawes get whacked and the Demons didnt remonstrate .There was some sniping in that game which begs the question... in this new age of generation Y and new styled tribunal is the whacking out?
I reckon it might be news to our guys but its still going on...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

BKB

I'll breal up your post in 3 sections and there's threaa different viewpoints...

I guess you're saying Kreuzer would be better if....
Kreuzer is better than Cox and Noc Nat because....
Kreuzer doesn't share the ruck duties with anyone the quality of Nic Nat and Cox and for that reason.....

I like Kreuzer. I like his never say die attitude. He's a competitive beast. When the ball hits the ground he hunts it....yeah they are his attributes....now back to the ruck thingy.....I'm not an apoligist.

He couldn't jump before the ACL, he was never a marking machine.....not interested in excuses, more interested in the facts. The now and the future.

Given this is the Hawthorn game thread...I'll be relevant...Kreuzer was up against Bailey who was a good ruck, but is shit now having done 3 x ACL's ....and you're comparing Kreuzers numbers against him....gotta laugh.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Sorry missed this post.

Interesting.

I jope you're right.

If Kreuzer can improve his game by 10% because of the confidence he'll gain over time he'll by GOLD.

I like Kreuzer and glad we have him. Need him to take marks around the ground and improve his kicking for goal....because we need him playing forward till we are allowed the free up Hendo from the backline.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..not a jumper of the nicnat, majak or hampson variety i agree, but more rucks jump like krooz than dont.. ..think of cox, jacobs, minson, jolly, mummy, etc etc.. ..none are jumpers.. ..you might get tall kpps that have big jumps like say Ryder that enable him to make up for lack of height with leap.. ..but otherwise most rucks dont get that high off the ground.. ..yes Krooz was never a leaper, but he's got his spring back, what he originally had.. ..just took a while to get it back post acl..

..thats right, Krooz was against Bailey, and the following week so were cox and nicnat, hence why another madew a comment saying how great they were vs hawks, and how krooz hasnt shown number 1 quality.. ..and so i said he got more hitouts than either of eagles rucks in games vs hawks, that his marks per game average is better than many of his talked up rivals, and that his hitout numbers and especially hit to adv percentages is very good..

..i think krooz's actual ruckwork is under-rated.. ..i can back up my comments with facts.. ..i9've posted plenty of numbers [facts] in the krooz player thread.. ..his hitout numbers, how his marks compare to other rucks etc etc.. ..factor in the acl setback, another fact that cant be ignored simply cos you dont want 'excuses'.. ..and he's doing very well.. ..is main flaw this season has been his goal kicking accuracy, which is better then it has been this year..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Marks that count.

High marks that give him a shot at goal....or intecepting marks in the backline which stop the oppositions forward thrusts....they're the marks I want him to bring int his game.

I have seen your facts and yes the numdbers look good. He's a workhorse.
I expecta bit more from him given he's a No 1 selection. That's all.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..fair enough too, i've got no doubt that he's actually got plenty more improvement in him.. ..he's taken good marks fwd, but goal kicking has let him down, but he's good enough to get himself opportunities, 3rd most marks inside 50 for the club.. ..goal kicking accuracy will improve.. ..he runs himself ragged fwd and back..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I'm sure fatigue has something to do with his kicking accuracy.
He needs to get his kicking routine sorted so fatigue or not the process must be followed through consistently.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..his missed goals haven't been too far off.. ..i know that's little consolation, but his kicking routine and technique isn't shonky per'se, it's just more his 'aim' hasn't been dead on target.. ..his actual kicking action is fairly consistent from one kick to the next.. ..this season, and last season too,, goal kicking accuracy, both in play and set shot kicking, has been sub par conversion wise across the team, aside from a few individuals.. ..these days there's far too few players who we'd be fully confident on kicking a goal..

..i think our MM wider play cuts Krooz short of a few possessions per game.. ..you often see him running thru the middle of the ground with some space but the ball isn't kicked to him.. ..with quick ball movement it's difficult for a ruckman to get into position down the line, more often they're busting a gut charging thru the middle just to get further up the ground, and if you're not overly tuned towards cutting back thru the center the ruckman gets 'ignored' as the ball's moved down the line along a more 'safer' route to goal..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Just watching it here on TV. It doesn't get any better with the commentary in Spanish.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

I can't help think that you're related to Kreuzer....you're an apologist for him.

I like Kreuzer too but I can see areas of his game which need to improve...a lot.

Its what he doesn't do when he's deep forward which is something he has to work on...and the game plan may just assist him , because I believe he has all the ingredients to make a great forward...just have to get them all brewing in the same game.

His kicking looks as though it hasn't changed since day 1, but his accuracy has...and itsnot as though he's kicking them to the left. He's spraying some OBOF.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

..heh, nah no relation just a huge fan of the way he plays the game.. ..i watch a lot of football, so i see plenty of other rucks go about their work as well.. ..and the notion that Krooz is average, and 'dime a dozen' is off target.. ..the idea that other rucks are much better is also off target.. ..sure he can do better, and i believe he will.. ..he's got plenty of improvement in him..

..i'm not apologising for him at all, i'm just explaining where he is truely at.. ..i'm also pointing out what he does and brings to the team, and how some ppl's thoughts are off target.. ..rucks generally aren't high possession earners nor mark accumulators.... ..yes he could do more, and yes he will.. ..just wait and see.. ..is simple..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I love your passion and ongoing support for Kreuzer.

I love the way he goes about it, and yes he has a few attributes other ruckmen dont have.

His tenacity and never say die attitude is what you'd want to go to battle with in a finals campaign let alone a do or dir Grand Final.

A few more marks around the ground.
Straighten up his flower kicking at goal.

I think he can get better too.
I love the mongrel he's been showing in the last 2 months...really inspiring stuff.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Ooohhh, tres números uno eh?...

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"They're [REDACTED]'

Haha.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

..did they mention we were missing Andrew Carruchio..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

If only we had all the amigos playing.

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"They're [REDACTED]'

Funny but Carruchio means the same thing in Spanish as it does in Italian - "couldn't hit the side of a barn from 10 metres.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill