Damning Stats

limestone · **Joined:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:37 am **Posts:** 770

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Stefchook wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

The midfield was monstered in that second half. Score emanating from midfield clearances: Essendon* 5.4.34, Carlton 1.4.10

Interesting thread.

Not all Kreuzer's fault obviously, but this is a problem when he's our ruckman. At his best he seems to merely nullify the opposition. But then I thought Ryder belted him late in the game.

..really..?.. ..and yet krooz had more hitouts than ryder [35 to 34], and middle clearances we won 12 to 5.. ..and dont say it was levi, cos for all the time he had in the ruck he got 5 hitouts.. ..ryder only had a couple more possessions and just a couple more marks.. .. ..krooz had his dominant times in the game, as did ryder.. ..for the most part they had an even battle.. ..cant blame krooz for the mids and flankers giving up their run..

New whipping boy, who is next. Hendo, Walker,

99prelim · **Joined:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm **Posts:** 3561

Stats can hide lots of things-like confidence, momentum and boldness
Had we gone in at 3/4 time 5-6 goals up and then Casboult scores the first goal in the last as he did, we would have found more run and carry just through adrenalin and the imminent defeat of a rival on the big stage.
Instead, Ess sensed the win and they found all the energy, run, boldness etc. Everything we did in the last 20 minutes would have been cautious, almost paralysing, yet they just were just driven to move the ball forward at all costs etc.
Broken record time but, MENTALLY WEAK AND FRAGILE

blueboys101 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 327

ryan2000 we have won 16 and lost 34 n had a draw against the top 8 teams in the last 5 years going by where they finished at the end of the year
we have beaten collingwood 5 times in the period

damning stat

blueboys101 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 327

just to take it further we have had 59 wins in that period

Big Kahuna Boot · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:26 pm

bondiblue wrote:

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Stefchook wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

The midfield was monstered in that second half. Score emanating from midfield clearances: Essendon* 5.4.34, Carlton 1.4.10

Interesting thread.

Not all Kreuzer's fault obviously, but this is a problem when he's our ruckman. At his best he seems to merely nullify the opposition. But then I thought Ryder belted him late in the game.

..really..?.. ..and yet krooz had more hitouts than ryder [35 to 34], and middle clearances we won 12 to 5.. ..and dont say it was levi, cos for all the time he had in the ruck he got 5 hitouts.. ..ryder only had a couple more possessions and just a couple more marks.. .. ..krooz had his dominant times in the game, as did ryder.. ..for the most part they had an even battle.. ..cant blame krooz for the mids and flankers giving up their run..

Kreuzer had support in Casboult and Ryder had nothing. Yet in the last Q Ryder was jumping over Kreuzer and Casboult. Why didn't they stop him from jumping?
Shouldn't Ryder fade out in a 2 against 1 contest? WTF!!!!!

I read Ryder had 37 hit outs, nevertheless the 197cm part time ruckman did too well against 2 x 200cm ruckmen.....are they ruckmen or did they just play in the ruck?

Would Warnock have been more effective in the last Q?

..essendonm had 37 hitouts, ryder had 34.. ..

..not true, Ryder played 1st ruck for a bit more than Krooz yes, but he didn't play 1st ruck all night long.. ..he didn't even spend as much time on the ground as either krooz or levi, so he certainly had support.. ..it was just crap support..

..it wasn't the rucks, krooz worked to set up the win in the 1st half, and ryder helped steal it in the 2nd.. ..their work ethic was similar across the game.. ..our mids stopped running after half time.. ..it was as if they thought they'd done enough.. ..1 man team up fwd didn't help us, nor did a plan b after hurley went onto waite.

Effes · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:48 pm

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Stefchook wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

The midfield was monstered in that second half. Score emanating from midfield clearances: Essendon* 5.4.34, Carlton 1.4.10

Interesting thread.

Not all Kreuzer's fault obviously, but this is a problem when he's our ruckman. At his best he seems to merely nullify the opposition. But then I thought Ryder belted him late in the game.

..really..?.. ..and yet krooz had more hitouts than ryder [35 to 34], and middle clearances we won 12 to 5.. ..and dont say it was levi, cos for all the time he had in the ruck he got 5 hitouts.. ..ryder only had a couple more possessions and just a couple more marks.. .. ..krooz had his dominant times in the game, as did ryder.. ..for the most part they had an even battle.. ..cant blame krooz for the mids and flankers giving up their run..

Kreuzer had support in Casboult and Ryder had nothing. Yet in the last Q Ryder was jumping over Kreuzer and Casboult. Why didn't they stop him from jumping?
Shouldn't Ryder fade out in a 2 against 1 contest? WTF!!!!!

I read Ryder had 37 hit outs, nevertheless the 197cm part time ruckman did too well against 2 x 200cm ruckmen.....are they ruckmen or did they just play in the ruck?

Would Warnock have been more effective in the last Q?

..essendonm had 37 hitouts, ryder had 34.. ..

..not true, Ryder played 1st ruck for a bit more than Krooz yes, but he didn't play 1st ruck all night long.. ..he didn't even spend as much time on the ground as either krooz or levi, so he certainly had support.. ..it was just crap support..

..it wasn't the rucks, krooz worked to set up the win in the 1st half, and ryder helped steal it in the 2nd.. ..their work ethic was similar across the game.. ..our mids stopped running after half time.. ..it was as if they thought they'd done enough.. ..1 man team up fwd didn't help us, nor did a plan b after hurley went onto waite.

You can quote the match hitouts, but watch their contests in the last qtr.

Big Kahuna Boot · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:07 pm

..you can look at the last 20 minutes, and i'll look at all the center bounces over the game, it was 12 to 5 clearances out of the middle that we won.. ..Ryder didn't win the game, nor did he have a dominating last Q..

bondiblue · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:31 pm

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

..you can look at the last 20 minutes, and i'll look at all the center bounces over the game, it was 12 to 5 clearances out of the middle that we won.. ..Ryder didn't win the game, nor did he have a dominating last Q..

It is not just one thing. Its a host of things.
Part too is that we lack in certain areas.

We all have a perspective as to why we lost.
Yours is that the midfield stopped running. Fitness? Quality?
Others is the taps to advantage Ryder was getting. Ruck dominance important?
I thought it was moreso 15 kicks which didn't hit their targets which left everyone out of position when they got the break.MM wants to know how they got space on the otherside when for 3/4 of the game we had that covered.

Its only small things, but a host of them. AS long as we identify and weigh up their value in the big picture. No team is perfect. You only need what it takes to win a GF on a given year.

Things are not as bad as it seems. We have Judd and a list who can....
Letting another season slip through our fingers is something people like me have to accept.

But I dare to dream. I can (just) handle the diappointment because I know we can all see areas in need of improvement, and that's the most important thing.

This is the year of reckoning....and we could do a (forgot the ice skaters name) in 2013.

I refuse to let another season slip by, especially when we're at the middle of a season.

I haven't cried since the GF in 1973.
My 5 year old cried on Friday night because of the result. That hurts.
I got him into this mess (Carlton). I've been selling them so much hope.

But its all worth it.
It is fun, and I know it becomes more than a game: passion...gotta love it!

sstormin123 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:20 pm

blueboys101 wrote:

ryan2000 we have won 16 and lost 34 n had a draw against the top 8 teams in the last 5 years going by where they finished at the end of the year
we have beaten collingwood 5 times in the period

damning stat

Carlton = Richmond

This entire playing group is taking us on a roller coaster ride to nowhere. As this stat shows. Will be many years before we are serious contenders. The list needs to be turned over. Our shot was 2 years ago and even then it was a weak one.

The problem is our admin don't believe that to be so, or simply won't admit it.

Looks at our team to Sydney's and it's glaringly obvious.
Or as a microcosm look and Gibbs v Selwood to see why we aren't going anywhere. Just the attitude and culture of the club and players is poor.

It's going to be a long 5-7 years. Hopefully the next crop will be better.

.......I'll still be a sucker and turn up every week though sigh

club29 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:09 pm

aramari wrote:

From 10 minutes into the 3rd the players looked knackered.

The damning stat that triggers all the other damning stats.

DocSherrin III · **Joined:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm **Posts:** 17210

club29 wrote:

aramari wrote:

From 10 minutes into the 3rd the players looked knackered.

The damning stat that triggers all the other damning stats.

Thymosin beta 4 > Altitude Rooms

barass · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:20 pm

I remember laughing at stats watching NBA games when the commentators would start with "in the last 7mins and 45secs the Celtics have outscored the Lakers by xxxx, and have xxx more assists and xxx more defensive/offensive rebounds".

Stats and figures are useful, but can be represented in 1,000 different ways and manipulated to produce a result the author wants. Let's look at the enitre game FFS.

dadadadada · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm **Posts:** 1344

aramari wrote:

From 10 minutes into the 3rd the players looked knackered.

I think we stopped running because we made the mistake of "defending a lead".

MM hit it on the spot when he said we "handed the ball back over to them" ... by this I take it he meant we stopped getting to the ball first. When a players mind goes into defensive mode, they play reactionary rather than proactively ... they wait, rather than do. I see this time and time again with our players ... they look to contain, rather than enhance.

Adam Chatfield · **Posted:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:36 pm

sstormin123 wrote:

blueboys101 wrote:

ryan2000 we have won 16 and lost 34 n had a draw against the top 8 teams in the last 5 years going by where they finished at the end of the year
we have beaten collingwood 5 times in the period

damning stat

Carlton = Richmond

This entire playing group is taking us on a roller coaster ride to nowhere. As this stat shows. Will be many years before we are serious contenders. The list needs to be turned over. Our shot was 2 years ago and even then it was a weak one.

The problem is our admin don't believe that to be so, or simply won't admit it.

Looks at our team to Sydney's and it's glaringly obvious.
Or as a microcosm look and Gibbs v Selwood to see why we aren't going anywhere. Just the attitude and culture of the club and players is poor.

It's going to be a long 5-7 years. Hopefully the next crop will be better.

.......I'll still be a sucker and turn up every week though sigh

I agree with all of this unfortunately, I think we will drop off rather significantly from about 2016 onwards, unless we nail all our recruiting decisions. Which is why the next couple of years are crucial both on and off the field. If we can solidify everything off field, and recruit well, things could turn out differently.

Another lot of recruiting like from 2009-11 would see us with the scenario below:

By 2016 we will most likely have none of Scotland, Carrots, Simpson, Judd or Waite (those remaining would almost certainly be below current output), even guys like Army and Betts will be about 29-30 by then.

Put into the mix a rampant GC and GWS, we are realistically looking into the early 2020s before our next realistic crack.

Bigredisback · **Joined:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm **Posts:** 942

We lost for one reason our kicking into the 50 all game was horrible

frank dardew · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm **Posts:** 7640

Damning stats we lost to richmond stkilda and Essendon* by less than a goal - dominated by richmond and stkilda most of the night - inept
We lost to collingwood and Essendon* after leading at three quarter time by two and a bit goals after dominating most of the match - choked

Megaman · **Posted:** Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:09 pm

limestone wrote:

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Stefchook wrote:

DocSherrin wrote:

The midfield was monstered in that second half. Score emanating from midfield clearances: Essendon* 5.4.34, Carlton 1.4.10

Interesting thread.

Not all Kreuzer's fault obviously, but this is a problem when he's our ruckman. At his best he seems to merely nullify the opposition. But then I thought Ryder belted him late in the game.

..really..?.. ..and yet krooz had more hitouts than ryder [35 to 34], and middle clearances we won 12 to 5.. ..and dont say it was levi, cos for all the time he had in the ruck he got 5 hitouts.. ..ryder only had a couple more possessions and just a couple more marks.. .. ..krooz had his dominant times in the game, as did ryder.. ..for the most part they had an even battle.. ..cant blame krooz for the mids and flankers giving up their run..

New whipping boy, who is next. Hendo, Walker,

They've had their day in the sun, time for others to get it

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:57 am

Most recent premiership: 6467 days ago (17 years, 8 months, 15 days)

Most recent grand final appearance: 5011 days ago (13 years, 8 months, 20 days)

Most recent prelim appearance: 4675 days ago (12 years, 9 months, 19 days)

Everything else is just fluff.

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2644

good thread doc

have you got any stats on what moves mm made during that time?

apart of sub.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17951

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

..you can look at the last 20 minutes, and i'll look at all the center bounces over the game, it was 12 to 5 clearances out of the middle that we won.. ..Ryder didn't win the game, nor did he have a dominating last Q..

You should look again. Ryder flogged us at the "around the ground" stoppages in the last quarter and their runners had a field day.

Damning Stats

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