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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:10 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BV, interested in your thoughts in Malthouse's press conference, particularly his comments on the game plan changing.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2013- ... -match-r10

From about 5:30-6:30 here if you haven't heard them



I think its spot on.
As much as others fantasise about us playing 'Malthouse style, kick around the boundary" footy, its obvious we're now playing to our strengths. As we have in previous seasons.
Yet even last week someone was saying its obvious we go around the boundary now. :lol:
We look to hit the corridor off half back as much as possible instead of the boundary style game Mick tried to implement during the NAB cup and first couple of games. Its common sense. we dont have the tall marking targets so its smart to move the ball around the masses instead of through it.
The AFL stats indicate plenty of scores are coming off turnovers so its stupidity to kick the ball to contests when you have the option of retaining possession. The fast, play on style also assists our small forward line by not allowing opposition clubs to get numbers back.
Full credit to Malthouse. He admits he tried to retrofit a game plan and it didnt work. I admire the fact he hasnt been bloody minded and has been adaptable.
And that was my concern. I said from day 1 we couldnt sustain a boundary based game style and its been obvious since the second half against Richmond that we've realigned our game style to something more relevant to our personnel.

It makes a farce of the predictions of some here though. 'MM only plays one ruckman", "MM will play a defensive, round the boundary game", no shootouts etc. The reality is, MM has proved he can be adaptable and flexible and Collingwoods gamestyle wasnt necessarily his "brand" but more the style that suited the personnel.
It also demonstrates the fact Ratten wasnt off the mark with our game style. Yes, he had plenty of areas to improve but how we played the game gave us the best chance of success.


So, are you now saying that it is not important that we are not in the top teams for contested footy as we were under Ratten? You were pretty adamant that this was our problem at the start of the year. I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:21 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:27 am 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:37 am
Posts: 770
woof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BV, interested in your thoughts in Malthouse's press conference, particularly his comments on the game plan changing.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2013- ... -match-r10

From about 5:30-6:30 here if you haven't heard them



I think its spot on.
As much as others fantasise about us playing 'Malthouse style, kick around the boundary" footy, its obvious we're now playing to our strengths. As we have in previous seasons.
Yet even last week someone was saying its obvious we go around the boundary now. :lol:
We look to hit the corridor off half back as much as possible instead of the boundary style game Mick tried to implement during the NAB cup and first couple of games. Its common sense. we dont have the tall marking targets so its smart to move the ball around the masses instead of through it.
The AFL stats indicate plenty of scores are coming off turnovers so its stupidity to kick the ball to contests when you have the option of retaining possession. The fast, play on style also assists our small forward line by not allowing opposition clubs to get numbers back.
Full credit to Malthouse. He admits he tried to retrofit a game plan and it didnt work. I admire the fact he hasnt been bloody minded and has been adaptable.
And that was my concern. I said from day 1 we couldnt sustain a boundary based game style and its been obvious since the second half against Richmond that we've realigned our game style to something more relevant to our personnel.

It makes a farce of the predictions of some here though. 'MM only plays one ruckman", "MM will play a defensive, round the boundary game", no shootouts etc. The reality is, MM has proved he can be adaptable and flexible and Collingwoods gamestyle wasnt necessarily his "brand" but more the style that suited the personnel.
It also demonstrates the fact Ratten wasnt off the mark with our game style. Yes, he had plenty of areas to improve but how we played the game gave us the best chance of success.


So, are you now saying that it is not important that we are not in the top teams for contested footy as we were under Ratten? You were pretty adamant that this was our problem at the start of the year. I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.



There was an article somewhere a couple of weeks back stating just this, more focus on turnovers, and not as much ( though still important), on clearances. More focus on ball carrier, to cause turnovers. Which means we are up with the trend this season for once, instead of the trend 2 years ago . :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:28 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.


Seems to be a bit of game-wide trend now.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:33 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Sydney Blue wrote:
harker wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Hammer is better than Casboult
He works harder takes more marks is better in the ruck and chasers better



Give me a break.

I wish it was true but it's just not. Have another go.


Hammer would have kicked 5 or 6 against that opposition we had yesterday
Weakest team in the comp and Casboult returns 1.3
Hammer is the better player


You obviously missed his efforts at Cramer St in front of goal.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:40 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Can't say I thought Casboult offered much yesterday. Most of his contributions were well late in the game.

I'd prefer to keep Bootsma in as a defensive forward on Fletcher, and play Warnock.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:57 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:59 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
woof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BV, interested in your thoughts in Malthouse's press conference, particularly his comments on the game plan changing.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2013- ... -match-r10

From about 5:30-6:30 here if you haven't heard them



I think its spot on.
As much as others fantasise about us playing 'Malthouse style, kick around the boundary" footy, its obvious we're now playing to our strengths. As we have in previous seasons.
Yet even last week someone was saying its obvious we go around the boundary now. :lol:
We look to hit the corridor off half back as much as possible instead of the boundary style game Mick tried to implement during the NAB cup and first couple of games. Its common sense. we dont have the tall marking targets so its smart to move the ball around the masses instead of through it.
The AFL stats indicate plenty of scores are coming off turnovers so its stupidity to kick the ball to contests when you have the option of retaining possession. The fast, play on style also assists our small forward line by not allowing opposition clubs to get numbers back.
Full credit to Malthouse. He admits he tried to retrofit a game plan and it didnt work. I admire the fact he hasnt been bloody minded and has been adaptable.
And that was my concern. I said from day 1 we couldnt sustain a boundary based game style and its been obvious since the second half against Richmond that we've realigned our game style to something more relevant to our personnel.

It makes a farce of the predictions of some here though. 'MM only plays one ruckman", "MM will play a defensive, round the boundary game", no shootouts etc. The reality is, MM has proved he can be adaptable and flexible and Collingwoods gamestyle wasnt necessarily his "brand" but more the style that suited the personnel.
It also demonstrates the fact Ratten wasnt off the mark with our game style. Yes, he had plenty of areas to improve but how we played the game gave us the best chance of success.


So, are you now saying that it is not important that we are not in the top teams for contested footy as we were under Ratten? You were pretty adamant that this was our problem at the start of the year. I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.




Are they mutually exclusive?
Are you trying to tell us we cant win the contested footy AND not minimise our turnovers? :screwy:

The truth is we've been better with our contested footy since we played the game on our terms. In fact, since we ditched the "kick to contests" game in the second half of our round 1 game, I'd suggest our contested footy is up with the best.
If however you've confused my concerns about our centre square clearances with contested footy (which I'd suggest you have), yes, I still believe we need to improve our clearance work. It directly correlates with scoring capacity. Our games have demonstrated that when we control the centre square, our capacity to score and minimise the pressure on our backline increases significantly.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Water girl #6, 3 votes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...


Pretty sure Ratts game plan was focused on winning contested footy which is not the focus now. He even hired Paul Williams as a specialist coach for stoppages/clearances. This is not a tweak of his plan.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...


Every team needs to make the best with what they have, I wouldn't blame the playing group for not being able to play like the pies of 2010. Just as the Pies now would look pretty silly playing like us.

I think its more down to the recruitment that we have a list which wont take us to where we want to be.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
woof wrote:
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...


Pretty sure Ratts game plan was focused on winning contested footy which is not the focus now. He even hired Paul Williams as a specialist coach for stoppages/clearances. This is not a tweak of his plan.


You need to realise the game changes. Geelong are near the bottom for clearances but are 9-1.

You can be like the Doggies who often win contested ball counts when they lose by 12 goals.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...



Thats nonsense.
Every team plays a game style suited to their personnel. Except for Melbourne and look how thats turned out.

Attempting to build a team suited to Malthouses Collingwood game style would be stupidity. The game evolves too much to stand still let alone planning to go backwards. Mick is smart enough to realise we need to complement what we have.
I'm sorry if that doesnt suit the bash Ratten, bash recruiters, bash previous coaching group philosophy as a whole.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
woof wrote:
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...


Pretty sure Ratts game plan was focused on winning contested footy which is not the focus now. He even hired Paul Williams as a specialist coach for stoppages/clearances. This is not a tweak of his plan.


Give it up while you're behind.
Carlton are second in the AFL for contested possessions per game.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Took my kids for their fist game yesterday... Blues jumpers, blues caps and a great win... They loved it! I suspect the crowd of 25,000 for GWS v Blues absolutely nailed it (right time, right location etc)... Don't often say this... but well done AFL!!!! My only gripe... $25 for parking!

In light of the above, as I have young kids and I'm a hands on Dad this is the first live game I have seen in many years!! I loved IT (and more importnantly my kids loved it... another generation of blues fans coming through...).

Dennis Armfield as BOG for me.... an absolute inspiration in running hard and never.... NEVER giving up!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7360
Blue Vain wrote:
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...



Thats nonsense.
Every team plays a game style suited to their personnel. Except for Melbourne and look how thats turned out.

Attempting to build a team suited to Malthouses Collingwood game style would be stupidity. The game evolves too much to stand still let alone planning to go backwards. Mick is smart enough to realise we need to complement what we have.
I'm sorry if that doesnt suit the bash Ratten, bash recruiters, bash previous coaching group philosophy as a whole.

MM drastically (I believe) changed Collingwood's game plan in an attempt to counter Geelong's dominance... it won them a flag... he can't seem to manage this with our group... why?

Maybe it's a blessing that we can't mimic da pois but one things for sure, I'm more confident that Mick will mould this team into a contender that I was with previous 'administrations'.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Nice of the buffoons on TFS to crap on to Sheeds for 10 minutes about Buddy instead of actually reporting on what happened in the game.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Hornet wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Hornet wrote:
Rexy wrote:
woof wrote:
....I just heard Waite on Gameday and he stated that there is less emphasis on clearances and more emphasis on creating turnovers.


That makes a lot of sense with the personnel we have.

Yep... proves what most have been saying about our list this year.

We've assembled a playing group that's incapable of adhering to major change in game styles... an indictment on previous recruiting/development/coaching as the game changes from year to year and we need to follow suit and/or counteract opposition tactics.

So MM is now forced to play a tweaked version of Ratten's game plan and further emphasizes the need for a mini rebuild in years to come.

Next four games will be telling...



Thats nonsense.
Every team plays a game style suited to their personnel. Except for Melbourne and look how thats turned out.

Attempting to build a team suited to Malthouses Collingwood game style would be stupidity. The game evolves too much to stand still let alone planning to go backwards. Mick is smart enough to realise we need to complement what we have.
I'm sorry if that doesnt suit the bash Ratten, bash recruiters, bash previous coaching group philosophy as a whole.

MM drastically (I believe) changed Collingwood's game plan in an attempt to counter Geelong's dominance... it won them a flag... he can't seem to manage this with our group... why?

Maybe it's a blessing that we can't mimic da pois but one things for sure, I'm more confident that Mick will mould this team into a contender that I was with previous 'administrations'.


How many years did that take him at Collingwood? The process begun in 2007 and didn't come off until 2010.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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