R8: Carlton v Port (pre-match/mega milestone week!)

jake_h03 · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 1:02 pm

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Cazzesman wrote:

I think a few are confused about the cause and affect here.

Continue to play poorly and it doesn't work.
Play well and it probably works because it can stretch the defense and stop Waite being double teamed.

The reason the 3 tall's is not working is because only Warnock is contributing at the moment and that is only in the ruck, not around the ground. If the other two can pull their weight, takes some marks and kick some goals then the 3 tall's can work.

It is same with having the 8 onballers. If 80% off them struggle, as they are, then does that mean 8 onballers doesn't work and we should only have 5?

If each players lifts and the team lifts as a cohesive unit, then all might be right with the world.

Regards Cazzesman

..i hear what yer saying regarding 8 onballers slacking off, but at least they're in their natural position.. ..i reckon the 3 rucks try as much as they can, but they dont have the fwd smarts... ..without fwd smarts, it's difficult to get off your opponent, and so a tall non-fwd will always be up against the odds to outmark their genuine KPD opponent..

..because they dont understand running patterns, even with good work rate they run to the wrong spots, mis-time their double or repeat leads, don't run good figure 8's etc etc.. ..so, when our runners look up, their 'talls' are often out of position.. ..this is why we bomb the ball so much.. ..this is why a player like waite, who is good but not great, make such a great impact to our structures.. .... ..it's why last week, the injection of hendo fwd made such a huge difference..

..you can get away with 1 ruck playing as a kpf, but they have to have a real KPF running the show..

One of the best posts I've read in a while!

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

Juanita Jones wrote:

Is there a thread about club culture as I want post in the pre game thread?

Try http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31684&hilit=goldfish

club29 · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 1:17 pm

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

Cazzesman wrote:

I think a few are confused about the cause and affect here.

Continue to play poorly and it doesn't work.
Play well and it probably works because it can stretch the defense and stop Waite being double teamed.

The reason the 3 tall's is not working is because only Warnock is contributing at the moment and that is only in the ruck, not around the ground. If the other two can pull their weight, takes some marks and kick some goals then the 3 tall's can work.

It is same with having the 8 onballers. If 80% off them struggle, as they are, then does that mean 8 onballers doesn't work and we should only have 5?

If each players lifts and the team lifts as a cohesive unit, then all might be right with the world.

Regards Cazzesman

..i hear what yer saying regarding 8 onballers slacking off, but at least they're in their natural position.. ..i reckon the 3 rucks try as much as they can, but they dont have the fwd smarts... ..without fwd smarts, it's difficult to get off your opponent, and so a tall non-fwd will always be up against the odds to outmark their genuine KPD opponent..

..because they dont understand running patterns, even with good work rate they run to the wrong spots, mis-time their double or repeat leads, don't run good figure 8's etc etc.. ..so, when our runners look up, their 'talls' are often out of position.. ..this is why we bomb the ball so much.. ..this is why a player like waite, who is good but not great, make such a great impact to our structures.. .... ..it's why last week, the injection of hendo fwd made such a huge difference..

..you can get away with 1 ruck playing as a kpf, but they have to have a real KPF running the show..

Good posting. I think you both have good points. The forward line was the same in the third as it was in the last but in the third we were so wasteful and the forward line was stagnant. We had all the play all the inside 50's but nothing on the scoreboard. Last quarter something changed up the ground and it all started to click. Everyone started playing better. One guy playing better gave opportunity for others to play better and before we know it Hampson is back in the game taking marks inside 50. Henderson starts finding space and Garlett looks dangerous (although he looked dangerous in the third with marks inside 50).

Not sure where all this is leading. If our defense and onball brigade are doing their jobs the forwards jobs are made easy. IF the mids and defense are failing that is when you need a gun forward to drag you back into the game. Brock was almost that man at one stage.

Will be fun watching it unfold. ... Hope we win while watching.

teknodeejay · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:30 pm **Posts:** 2897

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10575

I want to see Waite, Rowe & Kruezer up forward for the Port game. I want us to give ourselves a chance to win this game with atleast 1 geniune marking forward (Waite) plus Rowe who can compete and looks as if he can read the play up the ground and lead into the right spots. Then the resting ruckman (Krooz in this instance) is a bonus that we can at the very least kick long too, if needed.

I don't care about "Pagan's paddock" or "fast forward line" or "defensive mindset to lock the ball in". If we start taking grabs and kicking goals with our talls and the midfield kick well to position, the opposition will start to worry about us and forget peeling off!!!!!

That is what wins you games - forwards that can f***ing mark the footy and lead well.

Kouta · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 2:05 pm

frank dardew wrote:

Not sure culture round the club has changed - hope it has but not much tangible eveidence of it yet - best two forwards waite and betts after missing significant games with injury get suspended for stupid acts - we lose to stkilda in inglorious fashion in a similar way as to PA and GC last year where hallmark of performance is lack of grunt persistence and energy - we lack on-field leadership - continue to be bullied by Geelong and Collingwood when we play them

The side hasn't folded like they did in last year's games against St Kilda, North, Adelaide and Port. We never would have come back from a six goal deficit and get within a kick with two players down. We did similar against Geelong with Kreuzer off and Buckley in after before quarter time. There does appear to be more effort under Mick than the Essendon* game. We didn't get close with Carrazzo down and some walking wounded in Yarran, Laidler and Curnow. Some supporters only want to see the negatives.

Collingwood and Geelong didn't bully us. Collingwood and Geelong did to us what we did to sides under Ratten. They killed us with their small forwards and transition from half back. Heath Shaw and O'Brien smashed us with their run. Cats have found some pace with Smedts, Guthrie, Motlop, Murdoch, etc. being promoted.

DenimUndies · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 2:06 pm

teknodeejay wrote:

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

or better still don't kick it in his direction

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2758

Could Kruezer play back on Westhoff?

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10575

17th Premiership wrote:

Could Kruezer play back on Westhoff?

Only if he felt like it. :wink:

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2646

DenimUndies wrote:

teknodeejay wrote:

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

or better still don't kick it in his direction

Logical suggestion please contact our forwards, mids and million dollar coach and make them aware of the concept. :thumbsup:

DenimUndies · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 2:59 pm

redback wrote:

DenimUndies wrote:

teknodeejay wrote:

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

or better still don't kick it in his direction

Logical suggestion please contact our forwards, mids and million dollar coach and make them aware of the concept. :thumbsup:

Big Kahuna Boot · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 3:05 pm

redback wrote:

DenimUndies wrote:

teknodeejay wrote:

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

or better still don't kick it in his direction

Logical suggestion please contact our forwards, mids and million dollar coach and make them aware of the concept. :thumbsup:

..it'd be a good idea to not leave any player loose if they're having an impact against us..

BigKev · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 3:51 pm

Culture. Culture. Culture.
Leadership. Leadership. Leadership.

Pfft.

What we need to win more games are better footballers.

As for all the trash talk about Waite ... did any of you critics actually see the incident? It was a bullsh*t report.
I hope Waite keeps playing with aggression because it's in short supply amongst our big men. If the price to pay is the occassional crap report then so be it.

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 4:07 pm

It's not bull report.
That's why he got a week and we didn't appeal.
Living in the eighties......

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

BigKev wrote:

Culture. Culture. Culture.
Leadership. Leadership. Leadership.

Pfft.

What we need to win more games are better footballers.

As for all the trash talk about Waite ... did any of you critics actually see the incident? It was a bullsh*t report.
I hope Waite keeps playing with aggression because it's in short supply amongst our big men. If the price to pay is the occassional crap report then so be it.

You're confusing selfish foolishness with aggression.
Jarrad Waite is the king of standing over midgets and young players. If he wants to show some aggression, perhaps he could try keeping his feet when the opposition win the ball to affect a tackle. Or even try being a team player by not giving away soft downfield free kicks or getting suspended for stupidity.

If you want to see aggression, watch Robbo attack the ball or Scotland go back with the flight. Thats what courage and a fierce attack on the ball looks like. Not trying to kick the opposition player in the nuts or clashing heads with 20 year olds.

Effes · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 4:21 pm

its interesting that Carlton's official Twitter page has tweeted a congratulations about Andrew Walker's 150th but made no mention about Marc Murphy's 150th...

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

Robbo's attack on the ball is slowly but surely being made illegal by the rules committee.

redback · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm **Posts:** 2646

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

redback wrote:

DenimUndies wrote:

teknodeejay wrote:

One thing's for sure. If Redden waltzes into our forward line to take some uncontested marks, one of our THREE ruckmen need to go and stand next to him and punch everything he tries to put his hands on.

or better still don't kick it in his direction

Logical suggestion please contact our forwards, mids and million dollar coach and make them aware of the concept. :thumbsup:

..it'd be a good idea to not leave any player loose if they're having an impact against us..

Another concept lost on our players and coaching fraternity.

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

Effes wrote:

its interesting that Carlton's official Twitter page has tweeted a congratulations about Andrew Walker's 150th but made no mention about Marc Murphy's 150th...

Is he playing Effes?

Effes · **Posted:** Fri May 17, 2013 4:48 pm

bluegirl72 wrote:

Effes wrote:

its interesting that Carlton's official Twitter page has tweeted a congratulations about Andrew Walker's 150th but made no mention about Marc Murphy's 150th...

Is he playing Effes?

I don't know for sure but it seems strange there was something about Walker's milestone but not Murphy

If Murphy is out then we are $1.30 favourites with the captain, Gibbs, Carrazzo, Yarran and Betts missing.

R8: Carlton v Port (pre-match/mega milestone week!)

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