GWS - with all due respect to yourself and the players you mentioned but...
Hartlett, Raso and Russell have shown nothing as yet. Walker has shown signs but he is extremely inconsistent. The same could be said of betts. If we were to be brutally honest none of those players have done enough to indicate a long term career with the blues as yet (100+ quality games). The only one that could be said to have really shown something is carazzo (and to a lesser extend bentick). The others are miles behind in terms of becoming genuine AFL footballers.

Obviously the players arent going to be superstars overnight and time is needed to judge a player properly. But that is my point, in saying that you are happy with the players that we have picked up in the past few years yo uare doing just that. Most AFL supporters would be happy with the kids that they pick up each draft and it is not until they fail (or are close to failing) that they become duds.

Also, I think its a bit of a stretch to suggest that brittain (or another coach) would have been trading our early picks following the draft penalties - regardless of how you might perceive the previous coach, no one is that stupid.

Finally on the issue of retreads - we actually did have a choice. Better player management skills by the coach etc would have resulted in dramatically different picture. There would have been less disharmony and the retirements/delistings of players managed better - which would have negated the need to draft recycled players. Retaining 'hacks' like murphy, hulme, freeborn etc for an extra year or two would have given the extra year or two for 18yo draftees to develop before they were thrown into AFL level. Our on field performances could hardly have been worse over the 3 years.

Instead what we got was a half assed rebuild of the playing list - To suggest that we needed to bottom out this year and that the real rebuild of the playing list begins this year as some have implied is an absolute joke - one which few carlton supporters would find funny.

Or we could let them do what they want with no questioning or accountability.
Just like John Elliott.

I've been as supportive of the coaches and administration as anyone before today.
I've put my money and efforts into the club like other members have to rebuild the club.
But the club should be on notice.
The members should expect to see a comprehensive plan to rebuild the team. A plan based on youth and no compromises.

When the CEO gets up before the major sponsors a couple of months ago and celebrates the signing of the highly marketable Brendan Fevola, I think thats fantastic.
So understand when I hear Carlton want Fevola traded, and they do, there's not a lot of consistency happening.
The comprehensive plan we want is changing day to day.

If 'The face of the club" is traded 4 months after signing a 3 year deal, the club will lose any remaining credibility.

Look on the bright side, if Fev gets traded, Lance will get his 400k and at least he'll be happy.
We wouldnt want him to be offended and scrape through life on 350k per year.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

mikkey... the club will probably keep Fev and trade Lance... thats not the concern people like i or BV have...

I think the real problem is the mixed signals... the indecisive leadership.. the about faces this club is making... the lack of real ACTION... the fact that we have no obvious blueprint into the future is frightening.. THREE/FOUR years in...

Its a rudderless ship at the moment...

Thats where some of us are frightened.

Can you honestly say that at the end of three years you can see something obvious neing moulded ?!!

Lance wanteed 450k ... we offered 300k and then 350k... and now Nixon has withdrawn his offer of 400k (from 450k)
Why shouldnt Nixon do this???

All the about faces by the board he thinks he is a chance of snagging what he wants....

Lance wont get it at the end .. but you cant blame Nixon for trying... he knows were a rabble... because we send out mixed and indecisive messages.....

Were lost... we are shit and we dont know what to do.. so the game plan keeps changing because were desperate and clueless.

Thank goodness we came last and it helps us...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Its what they call in industry reactive management. They react to whats happening instead of being proactive.

Examples- Win a few WC games - sign Pagan for three years
Eddie Macguire expresses interest in Fev - sign him for three years despite having a two year policy.
Nixon touts theres interest in whitnal - up the anty to keep him

We need to be proactive some one in the club is making panic decisions. this coaching panel should have been overhauled no questions asked

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Look.. its a club that just doesnt understand what to do in the modern era...
Its too proud and looks to its past glorious history and not into what it needs to do now that were truly pathetic.

It starts with the previous regime and it flows through all the way down to the suppporters.

When people talk about Lance and Campo with reverence.. and Princes Park/Optus oval.. and why we cant attract players.. were not really that bad.... it rubs off on the board....

We are like alcoholics...!!!

the sooner we admit we have a problem the sooner we can begin to recover.

Id like to see us hide those 16 premiership cups till were worthy of them again.. it will give us something to plan to instead of bask in our history and not our future.

The quicker we wake up to ourselves the better...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

1) Having "sauce" inside the club does not equal that one knows exactly what goes on at Board level (except the sauce is the CEO). Anybody who has worked in any organisation of some size knows that many rumours go around - but does not mean it is actually true - it might just been misconstrued from snippets of infomation.

2) The Club has stated its plan i.e rebuild with youth, cut cost and make the club financially viable. No club would publish the exact blueprint of the detailed plans. Especially prior to trade week. So far I can not see evidence to the contrary.

3) The club has offered Lance what it thinks he is worth and Lance has rejected, the Club has stopped talks until after trade week to see what they can get for Lance. Can not see so far that the club has "caved in".

4) In regard to Fev the Club has officially said he is a required player. There are rumours he is "offered" around. Now that does not make it a fact - it is also not allowed according to AFL rules prior to trade week.

5) Now IF the club is testing the waters unofficially it can have several reasons a) they are testing his value in case he does not shape up next year and they want to trade him next year b) he has behaved so badly post contract that the club is really thinking about trading him (which could be a reason why they might show some flexibility in regard to Lance as it probably would be unwise to loose both in one year) c) they are doing this to send a signal to Fev - "shape up or ship out" d) every player is potentially up for trade if the right offer is there. I can see why they put Fev on contract mid-year. They might want to stop a bidding war for him (at the time of his contract his stocks were high) and prevent a Hamill scenario. In any case I think the chance of Fev being traded are very slim and I am not convinced the rumours are true.

6) I am not in a position to judge if the assistant coaches should be retained or not (and by the way we have only media reports saying they are safe - since when do we take media reports as gospel?) - but some of the reaction here does surprise me. If Pagan wants to keep them and you guys don't agree - well then you have to demand Pagan resigns...

7) From what I have seen ACTUALLY happening until this point I am not unhappy with the club. They say they are going to rebuild the list with youth and so far I have not seen anything to the contrary. Just because the Board does not share its detailed discussions and plans with the public (or posters on TC) does not mean they have none.

Synbad is complaining about "mixed" signals - I have not seen these - it seems the mixed signals are based on rumours and media reports. What are these mixed signals (besides "rumours)?

I remember how often Syndbad has told us how smart Collo and Pagan are and thet they know what they are doing. Suddenly they are spineless idiots. They might not act completely in line with Sinner "radical" plans - but maybe there are some good reasons for that.

So lets see what happens over the next 2 weeks and beyond.

The only difference between Pagan and Collo of the past is three years on were still jogging on the spot...na dtheyre all getting desperate.

See Denis would hate his record being rooted by this current team. He wouldnt be rapt about spending time at the bottom.
Collo and the board dont want to be remembered as the board who got rif of one wooden sppon boars and replaced it with another that potentially can get more wooden spoons...

Noone is interested in building platforms that you cant be judged by and someone else comes along and gets the accolades.

Mikkey if you dont think that Fev has been offered around OFFICIALLY.. then thats your thinggy.

The club has upped its offer to Lance once already... when it said it wouldnt.

Like i said Lance will go.. because he is a greedy son of a .... not because this board has answers.

If you talk to them theyre shit scared!!!!

Its about the "dining rooms being empty on match day"
Its all short term .......

The dining rooms will only be full.. YOU FOOLS!!!!.. when you take your punishment and assemble a group of talented. exciting footballers that people want to watch...not by half measured rebuilds that save you from coming last because were too scared to turf pieces of shit like Lance and Co out....

Lance just showed why this club had to make a stance with him....hes a greedy git!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I think this is exactly the right idea. If we're going to appoint another assistant coach, then we need to recruit one with experience in young player development. Without any inside knowledge I think we should be targetting Rob Hyde who's been in charge of the powerhouse of the TAC in recent years (Calder Cannons).

Synbad - I dont agree with your assesmentt of the Boards motivation.

I think they dont want to be the Board that put the Blues into a merger or relocation. I do think they are not opting for a "radical" solution due to short term financial constraints . We do not have a bag of money in the bank like Hawthorn has (from Waverley sale). We can not afford to stay at the absolute bottom for too long - we go bankrupt. I know we discussed this before and we have to diagree on this - but I am convinced that even just one or two more years with major losses due to lack of attendances and corproate / sponsor $ will break our neck.

Sponsors and corporates and TV will not say "hey Carlton has a plan and longterm it looks good so we support them even if they are totally shit and get beaten by 10+ goals every week". Just will not happen. Up to the 2004 season we were struggeling to get sponsor and corporate $-(after the 02 and 03 seasons). Only after a reasonable season in 04 the sponsor situation did improve and we got more FTA and night games (also because of the move to TD).

I understand why the Board is trying to balance longterm re-build with short term financial needs ("filling the dining room)". Your "plan" is sound from a football point of view but from a financial point of view it is not viable in the short term.

We just have to agree to disagree on this point.

mikkey...

we wont get sent to Darwin... what can happen is we become a shit side for a long time...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Mikkey,

I totally agree, but it is a bit dangerous bringing logic into this sort of discussion

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

I concur.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Good work Mikkey, a sensible considered post, let's hope it's catching

Bit rich to have logic coming out of you....

"We knew Karl played his last game against Collingwood ... blah blah blah"

He played a couple more since then....

And BM agrees with anything that disagrees with Synbad....

I want to know if BM thinks its worth defending Lance and the current crop of selfish overpaid leaders still....

Must have been disappointed he is showing us the loyalty you asked for us to give him.... and Campo.....

Well?????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Just can't help yourself can you Synbad.

Why do people bother even trying when you are involved in a post!

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Actually OR... you start of each and every post.. "Not having a go at you Synbad but here is my boot"....

Just go back through your history....

By the way.............. ill let you in on a couple more things after trade week....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Deep breaths people...and back to the discussion at hand...

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I stole Sheedy's Gatorade...

Synbad, that is not what I stated - perhaps try reading, interpreting and then quoting what was actually written.

What I stated in the post was;



These were the words of one of our coaches restated verbatim. It does not say that he didn't play more games. Perhaps the coaching personnel gave him instructions which he didn't carry out and they knew that his chances of playing the rest of the season were over at that stage.

Your personal insults and abuse of others is pathetic.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

OR... perhaps.. maybes blah blah blah......but you were wrong...!!!

But you did get all excited coming in with some news didnt you???

Listen mate!!!... i didnt sit here calling you a liar.... when you came in with some obvious sugar coat....
You had the audacity to question my motives...(when this might be very difficult for you to follow but my ins with the club are a bit better than yours... not a cock measuring thing .. just true!!... ask people that know me in real if they believe that i have agendas....
My only agenda is i want this club to improve!!!!


So before you take the splinter out of my eye turn the other cheek for me......

PS.. if his season was OVER why did we keep playing him????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Last warning kids before the thread goes...

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I stole Sheedy's Gatorade...