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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
to suggest stoppages are not an issue is ridiculous. Stoppages are a major source of scoring and if we can get our numbers back to previous years, it can only relieve pressure off our back 6 and give us further opportunities to score.
Its a crucial area we need to improve on immmediately if we want to be a valid finals contender.


We are 6th in the competition for clearance differentials. Hawthorn are 12th, Essendon* are 14th & Geelong are 17th.

Essendon* smashed Geelong in the stoppages on Friday night and were quite soundly beaten. The game changes from year to year...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2j3p2.html
We've played 4 of the bottom 5 clearance teams so our clearance differential is going to look OK.


:confused:

The point is that the best teams are low in the clearance differential rating this season.

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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Upper Swan.
The Rhino wrote:
Nup, don't believe in it.

No-one should be a walk up start, especially if they're brought back in at the expense of a player doing enough to hold their spot. Let alone 7 days and 1 match in between!

It creates complacency, and we have it in bucket loads already.

Judd = never played VFL
Murphy = never played VFL
Gibbs = never played VFL

The idea of having "untouchables" on the list is counter-productive. If the person deemed by the MC to be having Gibbs' spot has a crap game on Monday night, fair enough, bring Gibbs back.

Until then, back the blokes in who are out there to perform and hold their spot. I'm sure you can sacrifice a slice of internet credibility to do so.


Judd played WAFL if that helps.

One game for East Perth. After his game the coach at the time is often quoted as saying " that's the last time we'll see him" .

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:10 am 
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Garry Crane
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The Rhino wrote:
As one of the keys to the downfall of the Ratten era was not being cautious with injury management.

Let's move away from that, let's be cautious with a soft tissue injury, as if he comes back and tweaks it again, we'll probably lose him for four weeks. Game against Hawthorn, we can ill afford to lose him for. That game for mine, shapes as whether we finish top four or not. Lose it, no chance.

Give him a half in the VFL, then put him in cotton wool, cherry ripe for the week after. The team's winning, 3 or 4 players are getting games strung together they wouldn't have got under Ratten. If it ain't broke..


I agree with you, but I would only force players through the VFL if they missed 3 or 4 games all up. After 3 or 4, you might lose a bit of touch, need some game-time in the legs and it will make sure that you are right to go after obviously suffering a fair injury.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:18 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 am
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aboynamedsue wrote:
in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
to suggest stoppages are not an issue is ridiculous. Stoppages are a major source of scoring and if we can get our numbers back to previous years, it can only relieve pressure off our back 6 and give us further opportunities to score.
Its a crucial area we need to improve on immmediately if we want to be a valid finals contender.


We are 6th in the competition for clearance differentials. Hawthorn are 12th, Essendon* are 14th & Geelong are 17th.

Essendon* smashed Geelong in the stoppages on Friday night and were quite soundly beaten. The game changes from year to year...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2j3p2.html
We've played 4 of the bottom 5 clearance teams so our clearance differential is going to look OK.


:confused:

The point is that the best teams are low in the clearance differential rating this season.
I understood your point. It's not complicated. Without context though it's meaningless. For a variety of reasons those teams can be poor clearance teams and still win. We can't because we have neither the defence or the discipline to win the ball back consistently like they do.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:23 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
TruBlueBrad wrote:
We were never going to play 3 rucks.

Do we think we fooled St Kilda?


Kruezer has more ability in his little finger in every position on the field than Rowe...

I'll spell it out.. Rowe is a great bloke, but he's no ruckman, he's no forward, he's just fortunate to be on an AFL list...

Yet I can't remember any complaints when we played Warnock, Hampson and Rowe in the same team :banghead:


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
to suggest stoppages are not an issue is ridiculous. Stoppages are a major source of scoring and if we can get our numbers back to previous years, it can only relieve pressure off our back 6 and give us further opportunities to score.
Its a crucial area we need to improve on immmediately if we want to be a valid finals contender.


We are 6th in the competition for clearance differentials. Hawthorn are 12th, Essendon* are 14th & Geelong are 17th.

Essendon* smashed Geelong in the stoppages on Friday night and were quite soundly beaten. The game changes from year to year...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2j3p2.html
We've played 4 of the bottom 5 clearance teams so our clearance differential is going to look OK.


:confused:

The point is that the best teams are low in the clearance differential rating this season.
I understood your point. It's not complicated. Without context though it's meaningless. For a variety of reasons those teams can be poor clearance teams and still win. We can't because we have neither the defence or the discipline to win the ball back consistently like they do.


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:54 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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ColourMan wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
We were never going to play 3 rucks.

Do we think we fooled St Kilda?


Kruezer has more ability in his little finger in every position on the field than Rowe...

I'll spell it out.. Rowe is a great bloke, but he's no ruckman, he's no forward, he's just fortunate to be on an AFL list...

Yet I can't remember any complaints when we played Warnock, Hampson and Rowe in the same team :banghead:


Your problem is understanding how the draft works and thinking you know better than the club and its recruitment strategy.

Your post reflects that more than our ruck strategy.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:38 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Can't see a ball anywhere in the vicinity of this post. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:57 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..Krooz is a far better footballer than Boult and Rowe combined, but it's more than a direct player comparison, structures and team balance come into play as well.. ..however, aside from natural fwd craft instincts, the idea of being too tall/heavy is applicable whether we play krooz, or one of boult/rowe in his place..

..as an aside, i've quickly dismissed the idea of Krooz as a rover in at center stoppages, but i watched the hawks vs swans game, and Roughy had an excellent game playing stints onball as a rover at stoppages.. .... ..fwd ability aside, as a footballer in a contest around the ground, i don't think Roughy has more agility, touch, two sided ability and speed than Krooz has.. ..in the thick of the contest Krooz is a first rate footballer, and i'm beginning to warm to the idea.. ..and yes i understand the arguement in regards to spread from a contest, but that doesn't hold Brock back, i don't think he's any faster than Krooz... .its about smarts and work-rate, which Krooz has.. ..he spreads from the contest both offensively and defensively, as good as any player.. ..i think he could play in bursts in the middle, as a rover.. ..am changing my opinion on this..

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:59 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..and yes, the taints are shizen.. ..they played crap vs the pies, its just the pies played like crap too and so it was an even game of crapness.. ..it's more a reflection on the pies dropping some form, vs the taints playing well..

..smash 'em..

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:13 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I hope you guys are right.
If Yaz and Carrots are out as well, I'm not all that confident. Hopefully it's just K. out.
They'll be thinking they're a chance against us, and have a good record, as well as the aintithard factor.
I reckon they'll try roughhousing us too.
Having said that
I hope we smash 'em!!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:20 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Are the AFL ever going to get rid of this stupid Monday night game or stop putting us in the slot? Hate it and not going.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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missnaut wrote:
Are the AFL ever going to get rid of this stupid Monday night game or stop putting us in the slot? Hate it and not going.


You're going to watch it though.
They do it for ratings.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:09 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Saints are setting themselves for this one.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:37 pm
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After the poor fixturing of games yesterday, they'd want ratings for this game.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:35 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:14 am
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Any truth behind the twitter that Carazzo has went in for scans?


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:43 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6047
in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
in8 wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
to suggest stoppages are not an issue is ridiculous. Stoppages are a major source of scoring and if we can get our numbers back to previous years, it can only relieve pressure off our back 6 and give us further opportunities to score.
Its a crucial area we need to improve on immmediately if we want to be a valid finals contender.


We are 6th in the competition for clearance differentials. Hawthorn are 12th, Essendon* are 14th & Geelong are 17th.

Essendon* smashed Geelong in the stoppages on Friday night and were quite soundly beaten. The game changes from year to year...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2j3p2.html
We've played 4 of the bottom 5 clearance teams so our clearance differential is going to look OK.


:confused:

The point is that the best teams are low in the clearance differential rating this season.
I understood your point. It's not complicated. Without context though it's meaningless. For a variety of reasons those teams can be poor clearance teams and still win. We can't because we have neither the defence or the discipline to win the ball back consistently like they do.


The comment was made that we can't be a finals contender unless we control the clearances and I'm saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat....

There is evidence this season that the top teams are not producing strong clearance numbers but still winning games. I'm not sure why you think Essendon* can play that way and we can't. Do they have a better defence than us really? I see very exciting counter-attack possibilities coming from the likes of Walker, Gibbs, Hendo, Scotland & Tuohy. I think by the end of the season we will be a more disciplined unit under MM and will be able to win in different ways. We won't always live and die by clearance domination.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:48 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:12 pm
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The Rhino wrote:
Who says they're definite walk up starts?

What if Hampson kicks a bag tomorrow night?
Nothing wrong with Gibbs coming back through the 2s after a few off with a soft tissue injury.

No-one in the side should be a walk up start.

They are walk up starts

Hampson vs Waite lol


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:58 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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The Rhino wrote:
As one of the keys to the downfall of the Ratten era was not being cautious with injury management.

Let's move away from that, let's be cautious with a soft tissue injury, as if he comes back and tweaks it again, we'll probably lose him for four weeks. Game against Hawthorn, we can ill afford to lose him for. That game for mine, shapes as whether we finish top four or not. Lose it, no chance.

Give him a half in the VFL, then put him in cotton wool, cherry ripe for the week after. The team's winning, 3 or 4 players are getting games strung together they wouldn't have got under Ratten. If it ain't broke..


Totally agree...we need to start doing what other countries are doing with soft tissue injuries - give them proper time to heal. Apparently in Euro football, 21 days is the MINIMUM.

Go down the conservative path, re integrate them with a 50-60% match time in the seconds and then bring them in.
BENEFITS LONG TERM
less chance of recurrence
more game time into players 23-30
no one immune from some NB action (that might also be good for the development of our kids anyway, having an experienced player on the field with them)

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:58 am 
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Craig Bradley
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I only need refer you to your username as a staunch reminder of the dangers of "walk up starts" and guaranteeing spots, regardless of fitness or form.

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