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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Last week I highlighted using a smaller more agile forward line will become a trend.


You are one step behind, Synbad. Teams can have both height and agility in their forward line and I think that's what some have been working toward for quite some time. Either way, we lose out because our HBFs are neither particularly tall or agile.


Especially us with players such as Krooz, Hammer, and Waite who are mobile, athletic and big.

Seriously?

Paf... we dont have those players....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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We were quite competitive, but I felt if the cats didn't lairise so much, and if they had not eased off in the last, we would have been blown away. We are a 10th to 7th side, and when you have invested a couple of mill in paid out contracts and a quick fix coach, that is not where the committee expected us to be (which shows what good judges they are!)

What stood out for me is that Juddy is still our best player. Garlett needs to do more of the hard things. Simmo is in career worst form. Tuohy played his best game for a long time. Walks is a very talented player, and the only guy running from defence. Sam Rowe is showing a bit. Yarran has sublime talent, can he become a midfielder? McLEan is honest but doesn't hurt the oppo, how many winning sides has he played in since he became a regular. Hammo looked tentative, which is reasonable. Hope he gets a good go in the ruck while Big K is out. I'd bring in CAsboult and play Hammo in the ruck. Warnock can continue to be the most expensive player in the VFL.

What most stood out is our lack of cohesion and leadership across the ground. Juddy was a do as I do captain which lifted training standards, but he is not an extrovert. Murph is an excellent player but doesn't seem to have the authority of other captains, and we don't have enough real leaders around the ground. Of the 4 guys up for captaincy who didn't get it, Carrazzo and Duigan seem to be the best most authorative leaders, but Duigan can't get a game. I like Waite, but he is still a potential player and he has been playing ten years, he is subject to brain fades, and only plays every now and again. And Simmo has been a great player, but to me seems an unlikely captain. Who are our leaders on the field? Our average drafting has meant that few of our picks aside from the #1s, are still at the club, and we just don't have many leaders in the 22-28 bracket (or anywhere really). The guys who seemed the most natural leaders haven't been good enough players -Bentick for instance.

You need strong leaders across the field to win flags. Think of us when we were good. There were half a dozen guys who could have been captain. In the last ten years we haven't had any born leaders. When Yarran kicked the first goal of the last qtr, there was no excitement from him or the team.

LOved seeing Buckley, like many here I remember his old man, I saw Jimmy at Vic Park in 1976 on what I think was his first game. He was 16 and we got flogged, but he was a terrific, tough nasty player, and at least Dylan looked excited when he kicked a goal. There just don't seem to be personalities in the team who bind the side together.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Pros:
Walker, Tuohy and Jamison were all terrific in defence. Great to see a return to form for Tuohy.
Robbo was terrific in at the centre clearances.
Judd and McLean were good. Carrazzo was fantastic.
Rowe was promising again.
Nice to see Buckley get a go, and kick a goal.
We don't give up.

Cons:
Diabolical the way we leak goals late in quarters. Our skill level really gets exposed late in quarters, especially at a venue like Etihad.
Too many players don't want to take set shots at goal. Looks like Yarran has now got the yips.
Hampson looked sore.
We play timid. Except for Walker, we don't have enough players who are aggressive and stand up for teammates. (It's one of the reasons why I think Bell should be in the team every week.) Also Garlett, Yarran and Armfield all opted not to contest marks in our forward 50 when there was a chance of taking a hit.
I really like Lucas and the confidence he's gaining. And his speed and hard running and ability to get on the scoreboard. But he'd have to be one of the most poorly skilled 1st round picks I've seen in a while. Some of his kicking and handballing is horrible.
Simmo is a real worry at the moment.
Probably most concerning of all, is that the defensive traits MM has been able to develop in his 3 previous clubs are not only missing at the moment, but showing no apparent signs of arriving at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:57 pm 
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John Nicholls
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gerry atric wrote:
We were quite competitive, but I felt if the cats didn't lairise so much, and if they had not eased off in the last, we would have been blown away. We are a 10th to 7th side, and when you have invested a couple of mill in paid out contracts and a quick fix coach, that is not where the committee expected us to be (which shows what good judges they are!)

What stood out for me is that Juddy is still our best player. Garlett needs to do more of the hard things. Simmo is in career worst form. Tuohy played his best game for a long time. Walks is a very talented player, and the only guy running from defence. Sam Rowe is showing a bit. Yarran has sublime talent, can he become a midfielder? McLEan is honest but doesn't hurt the oppo, how many winning sides has he played in since he became a regular. Hammo looked tentative, which is reasonable. Hope he gets a good go in the ruck while Big K is out. I'd bring in CAsboult and play Hammo in the ruck. Warnock can continue to be the most expensive player in the VFL.

What most stood out is our lack of cohesion and leadership across the ground. Juddy was a do as I do captain which lifted training standards, but he is not an extrovert. Murph is an excellent player but doesn't seem to have the authority of other captains, and we don't have enough real leaders around the ground. Of the 4 guys up for captaincy who didn't get it, Carrazzo and Duigan seem to be the best most authorative leaders, but Duigan can't get a game. I like Waite, but he is still a potential player and he has been playing ten years, he is subject to brain fades, and only plays every now and again. And Simmo has been a great player, but to me seems an unlikely captain. Who are our leaders on the field? Our average drafting has meant that few of our picks aside from the #1s, are still at the club, and we just don't have many leaders in the 22-28 bracket (or anywhere really). The guys who seemed the most natural leaders haven't been good enough players -Bentick for instance.

You need strong leaders across the field to win flags. Think of us when we were good. There were half a dozen guys who could have been captain. In the last ten years we haven't had any born leaders. When Yarran kicked the first goal of the last qtr, there was no excitement from him or the team.

LOved seeing Buckley, like many here I remember his old man, I saw Jimmy at Vic Park in 1976 on what I think was his first game. He was 16 and we got flogged, but he was a terrific, tough nasty player, and at least Dylan looked excited when he kicked a goal. There just don't seem to be personalities in the team who bind the side together.


A very fair summation. Just finished watching the game. Leadership is such a concern. You watch Geelong and they ooze leadership, we look timid. Andy Walker was one of the few who was prepared to stand up. Yes too many are introverts.

The skill level and class is just not there. Clear evidence of that in the last quarter with all those missed shots at goal. Despite the fact that we have played past finalists in the last two games, we will be struggling this year and it will require significant improvement from many players if we are to be final aspirants. Just looking for improvement. Still believe that the lack of class and skill (and confidence) across the team will be our undoing.

Great to see Dylan Buckley show some spark and Touhey have a better game. I thought AJ tried very very hard but he is the one of an unfortunately large group of our players where lack of skill and class will tell in the end.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:26 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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ThePsychologist wrote:
Will be better w Waite, Betts, Kruezer, Laidler, Bell, Ellard in our best 22.


Problem is that the MC don't seem all that keen on playing Bell at the moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:29 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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George Harris wrote:
No one was helping out Murphy when he was getting !@#$%& over by Taylor Hunt.
Conversely, why weren't we applying those same tactics to Selwood?
Soft team!


It's been a problem for a while. Judd was mauled for 2-3 years without much help. And now it's Murph's turn. Regardless of where we finish this year, really want to see a far greater team ethos developing. And consistent aggression is part of it. This is one of the reasons why I think Bell should be in the team. Not sure if it's foreign to McLean, but he just has to get better at this as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:31 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Ponkstar wrote:
Walker played a fantastic game tonight.

Maybe he should have been in the leadership group.


Was thinking the same. Not simply because he played well, but he was aggressive and showed some passion and flew the flag for teammates.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:33 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Armfield has the sort of attack on the ball Gibbs would dream about.


While I agree that's generally true, Armfield jibbed a marking contest in forward 50 in the last quarter.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:35 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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redback wrote:
What we need is team ethic.
I've said it before and nothing will change until we sacrifice for each other.
We need to protect and support, easy as that.
Instead of running off to receive we need to block and shephard for the carrier. Give him time and space to assess and deliver. Our delivery is pathetic and needs to be addressed immediately.
We need to block for the man when not in possession.


I agree with this. It's been a real trait of MM teams in the past. It's one of the changes I expected to see. I can only presume it's taking longer than I hoped.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:45 am 
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Harry Vallence

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AFL 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - Carlton Only highlights
[youtube]8KP_k_h3leA[/youtube]

AFl 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - AFL Match highlights
[youtube]COVFb5nfC5M[/youtube]

AFL 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - Lucas lucky break
[youtube]6Y6qq2gDkGs[/youtube]

AFl 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - Lineball skills
[youtube]hUlJEVqXHrw[/youtube]

AFl 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - Buckleys first goal
[youtube]123VHig3BCs[/youtube]

AFL 2013 - Round 3 - Geelong v Carlton - Mick Malthouse press conference
[youtube]UBMjPrdyVs4[/youtube]

2013.04.14 - Gameday - Geelong v Carlton review (with Jimmy Bartel and James Kelly)
[youtube]lCUNypnX6Ms[/youtube]

2013.04.14 - Sunday Footy Show - Geelong v Carlton (with Tom Lonergan)
[youtube]u63AvsjLJVo[/youtube]

2013.04.14 - Sky News - Blues lose Kreuzer
[youtube]8E_qitrUSFo[/youtube]

2013.04.14 - Today - Cats beat winless Blues
[youtube]2RfIHLgvOZo[/youtube]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:48 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Sorry if these points have been brought up before, but some things I picked up on during the match were:
1: When the Cats kicked it back in after a behind, they were able to get 2 kicks clear and both were uncontested. I know the buzz is all about 'zones', but seriously, is it that hard to man up during a kick in??
2: I actually liked the way we began to lock the ball in our forward line and really harass their defenders, something that we weren't particularity good at previously. Lesson from this is that there are some opposition defenders you need to put a torch to and upset their backlines eg: Harry Taylor, Dustin Fletcher, Heath Shaw. When Armfield went to Taylor in the last, things began to gel again.
3: Rowe is actually one of the few players who actually leads. Rest of the team should bloody well take notice of this.
4: Liked Tuohy's mocking of Selwood when he didn't get the free kick. Should be more of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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oh yeah, forgot: What's with the 'kick and hope' method of getting the ball out of defence? All it did was land in opposition hands. Players should sit down and watch the Hawthorn-Collingwood game and see how the Hawks do it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I was livid after the game but have managed to settle down a bit.

I think the key issues the team have are as follows:

1. The amount of our players who give up to 15 metres space against their direct opponent (sometimes more). Funily enough this allows the opposition far too easy entries in their forward 50.

2. In at least the last two games the team seems to go to sleep for five or so minutes a quarter, and let the opoosition just walk over them. It happened at least three times against geelong, and each time we were about 3 goals up before the sleep occurred and each time Geelong ripped the momentum fo us.

3. The team still shows signs of being mentally fragile and weak and perhaps this partly explains the lapses in concentration I noted above. Hopefully Malthouse reputation as being a "hard" man will transfer to our team, because alot of our players need to harden the flower up, especially when put under pressure by opposition teams.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Stefchook wrote:
George Harris wrote:
No one was helping out Murphy when he was getting !@#$%& over by Taylor Hunt.
Conversely, why weren't we applying those same tactics to Selwood?
Soft team!


It's been a problem for a while. Judd was mauled for 2-3 years without much help. And now it's Murph's turn. Regardless of where we finish this year, really want to see a far greater team ethos developing. And consistent aggression is part of it. This is one of the reasons why I think Bell should be in the team. Not sure if it's foreign to McLean, but he just has to get better at this as well.


I don't think that is correct. I agree we may not have sheperded for Murphy but Walker got right in the face of Murphy's direct opponent and Thouey was stood toe to toe with Selwood. We are actually starting to fly the flag.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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BluesRockMyWorld wrote:

3. The team still shows signs of being mentally fragile and weak and perhaps this partly explains the lapses in concentration I noted above. Hopefully Malthouse reputation as being a "hard" man will transfer to our team, because alot of our players need to harden the flower up, especially when put under pressure by opposition teams.



More like 20 metre billboard than just your ordinary every day sign.

:wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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AGRO wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:

3. The team still shows signs of being mentally fragile and weak and perhaps this partly explains the lapses in concentration I noted above. Hopefully Malthouse reputation as being a "hard" man will transfer to our team, because alot of our players need to harden the flower up, especially when put under pressure by opposition teams.



More like 20 metre billboard than just your ordinary every day sign.

:wink:


LOL. Sadly this issue has been evident in our team for a long long time. Surely if Malthouse can't harden them up no one can?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Stefchook wrote:
redback wrote:
What we need is team ethic.
I've said it before and nothing will change until we sacrifice for each other.
We need to protect and support, easy as that.
Instead of running off to receive we need to block and shephard for the carrier. Give him time and space to assess and deliver. Our delivery is pathetic and needs to be addressed immediately.
We need to block for the man when not in possession.


I agree with this. It's been a real trait of MM teams in the past. It's one of the changes I expected to see. I can only presume it's taking longer than I hoped.


Agree, been something that's been missing from our play for years. Interestingly, the one player I did see block for another at a stoppage (doesn't mean there weren't other examples that I missed, hard to pick up on those things at the ground) was Davies.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Hampson again proved he's not up to it. His output was woeful ... both as a key forward and ruckman once Kreuzer was subbed out.

Even on his good days, he struggles to drag down more than 5 marks or kick more than 2 goals. He's not taking us into the top 4 ...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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For what it's worth I think Gerry A's post about the game is spot on.

We need more voice out there, more talk to each other so that when those bad patches are lurking players can quickly respond and demand more from each other. I had the privilege of going in the rooms before the game and then sitting behind the interchange during the game. What stood out to me was they looked like individuals concentrating so hard on their own game but not bringing anyone else into the game. That voice, arrogance was missing that's vital in getting everything out of yourself and having the confidence to win the 50/50s.

As for MM he's learning heaps about our list. No need to panic and there are good news stories amidst the losses so far. I'm sure he's keeping his gun powder dry for when we play the more mediocre sides. We must stop dropping those games and I'm confident he'll show his wares then to get enough wins on the board.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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I love footy and love Carlton even more, and I am pumped that the season has started.
After 3 rounds I have reconfirmed that:
I hate any team playing Carlton (no matter any soft spots I have during non CFC games)
I hate umpires inconsistencies - boils my blood when we pillaged by them
I hate tv commentary - it seems like there is always an opposition plant talking up the opposition and missing the real action and game in general.
I hate Losing!!!!
I want a team effort, support and play for each other and unleash every ounce of skill that is possessed.
Stop teasing me, teasing was nice when we were Melbourne and could only dream - but we have passed that stage.


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