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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:46 am 
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John Nicholls
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Donstuie wrote:
I remember one of our VFL stalwarts (Wiggins?) was in our leadership group. Not sure how successful that was though.

I just hope that whoever takes over the captaincy becomes the boss. The new boys in particular are going to gravitate towards Juddy, not to mention a lot of the guys already there who are reliant on Juddy to set the example. The new captain needs to be THE LEADER, not just the guy who tosses the coin. Moving Juddy out of the leadership group could be a great success or a massive failure, and it all depends on what happens above the shoulders of the guys there (given our recent track-record, this leaves me sceptical).

In short though, this can't just be about taking the heat off Juddy. How many decisions have we seen this club make because of Juddy? We recruit players "to help Juddy", we demand improvement from our next tier "to take the heat off Juddy", we don't need a proper marketing/membership campaign because "we've got Juddy", Ratts' in the coach's box "don't worry the champ's got it", and now we're fishing for a new captain not because we've got immediate replacements demanding it, but because once again "Juddy needs help".

This has to be about players rising to the challenge as though he weren't even there. Hopefully leaving him out of the leadership group and him becoming "just another player" will be enough to knock a bit of sense into those who have been cruising for too long and force them to step up.

Point well made. It is about leadership density and yes a few need to step up. Will be interesting to see how it goes. I suspect the new coach has had a strong involvement in this one.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
5 man leadership group

Carrazzo
Simpson
Waite
Murphy
Duigan


http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsar ... fault.aspx

I don't mind the look of that list, but am surprised at the inclusion of Waite. As an outsider looking in he seems to be a bit too, erm, laid back is probably the most polite way to say it. But, as I said, that's from the outside, so hopefully he's more motivated behind the scenes.

Duigan could be a good inclusion I think. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Taff wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I remember one of our VFL stalwarts (Wiggins?) was in our leadership group. Not sure how successful that was though.

I just hope that whoever takes over the captaincy becomes the boss. The new boys in particular are going to gravitate towards Juddy, not to mention a lot of the guys already there who are reliant on Juddy to set the example. The new captain needs to be THE LEADER, not just the guy who tosses the coin. Moving Juddy out of the leadership group could be a great success or a massive failure, and it all depends on what happens above the shoulders of the guys there (given our recent track-record, this leaves me sceptical).

In short though, this can't just be about taking the heat off Juddy. How many decisions have we seen this club make because of Juddy? We recruit players "to help Juddy", we demand improvement from our next tier "to take the heat off Juddy", we don't need a proper marketing/membership campaign because "we've got Juddy", Ratts' in the coach's box "don't worry the champ's got it", and now we're fishing for a new captain not because we've got immediate replacements demanding it, but because once again "Juddy needs help".

This has to be about players rising to the challenge as though he weren't even there. Hopefully leaving him out of the leadership group and him becoming "just another player" will be enough to knock a bit of sense into those who have been cruising for too long and force them to step up.

Point well made. It is about leadership density and yes a few need to step up. Will be interesting to see how it goes. I suspect the new coach has had a strong involvement in this one.


Yep. You can't imagine Mick breathing a sigh of relief and saying "don't worry, the champ's got it."

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:53 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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camelboy wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
5 man leadership group

Carrazzo
Simpson
Waite
Murphy
Duigan


http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsar ... fault.aspx

I don't mind the look of that list, but am surprised at the inclusion of Waite. As an outsider looking in he seems to be a bit too, erm, laid back is probably the most polite way to say it. But, as I said, that's from the outside, so hopefully he's more motivated behind the scenes.

Duigan could be a good inclusion I think. :thumbsup:


Duigan seems like a Malthouse type captain.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Stamos wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Waite isnt leadership material.


The playing group obviously disagrees

haha they do disagree.. and thats why they dont have a clue a bout leadership

The money the club has pissed against the wall with leading teams is mindboggling and its illustrated by that one decision by the players group.

If they truly believe Waite should be there ... we have more worries in leadership recognition than we even thought we had leaders.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
camelboy wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
5 man leadership group

Carrazzo
Simpson
Waite
Murphy
Duigan


http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsar ... fault.aspx

I don't mind the look of that list, but am surprised at the inclusion of Waite. As an outsider looking in he seems to be a bit too, erm, laid back is probably the most polite way to say it. But, as I said, that's from the outside, so hopefully he's more motivated behind the scenes.

Duigan could be a good inclusion I think. :thumbsup:


Duigan seems like a Malthouse type captain.



yes he does!!! but he needs to be capable of holding his spot in the side....

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:00 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Synbad wrote:
Stamos wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Waite isnt leadership material.


The playing group obviously disagrees

haha they do disagree.. and thats why they dont have a clue a bout leadership

The money the club has pissed against the wall with leading teams is mindboggling and its illustrated by that one decision by the players group.

If they truly believe Waite should be there ... we have more worries in leadership recognition than we even thought we had leaders.


Waite may only be there for the fact he plays forward and for his seniority with Betts, Garlett, Walker, a tall young forward and possibly Menzel around him.

Can't think of any other reason to be honest, other than no one else cared to put their hand up and it was left to last man standing.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:13 am 
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Bruce Doull
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In a perfect world you'd like to think at least half the team would've put their hand up.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:17 am 
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Bruce Doull
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harker wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Stamos wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Waite isnt leadership material.


The playing group obviously disagrees

haha they do disagree.. and thats why they dont have a clue a bout leadership

The money the club has pissed against the wall with leading teams is mindboggling and its illustrated by that one decision by the players group.

If they truly believe Waite should be there ... we have more worries in leadership recognition than we even thought we had leaders.


Waite may only be there for the fact he plays forward and for his seniority with Betts, Garlett, Walker, a tall young forward and possibly Menzel around him.

Can't think of any other reason to be honest, other than no one else cared to put their hand up and it was left to last man standing.


Not putting their hands up means whatever leading teams has been doing hasnt worked.
Choosing him because hes been around the longest means Leading Teams hasnt worked.

Sometimes you just need to thrust responsibility on people.
They should all be leaders.... and the job of a smart operation is identify someone who will grow into the role.. and challenge him/ them.

I reckon as a club we dont challenge ourselves onfield enough....

Might not be perfect but we should relish challenges and footballers should relish challenges.

Nothing like fielding in the slips and hoping the ball gets knicked to you... we dont have enough of those.

So we have been doing something wrong...!!!

And it will perpetuate itself for as long as players give someone who has shirked reponsibility all his life to responsibility because they dont want it themselves.!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:37 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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One from the back half , three from the middle and one forward , seems quite balanced to me thats maybe why waite is in there only other forward that would warrant it would be Eddie

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney Blue wrote:
One from the back half , three from the middle and one forward , seems quite balanced to me thats maybe why waite is in there only other forward that would warrant it would be Eddie

the forward leader that seldom plays and lacks discipline?

rightyo.......

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Great move involving Waite in the leadership group. :thumbsup:
He is our X factor.
When he plays he plays well and is our focal point in forward line.
He is a lead up forward and also handles pack and one out situations, what more can you ask for?
Despite what some might say to me he is a KP, 194cm and mobile has held down our forward line when he isn't injured, which has been his biggest challenge.
He is the only one that throws his weight around and does it well despite some reports of brain fades (if it suits compare Judds suspension record with Waites).
He also brings the smalls into the game and eases pressure from other tall’s as he’s usually is taken by the best defender.
With the youngsters coming through and hopefully injury free this will assist him in the load he has been carrying and this will curtail some of his misplaced frustration and aggression but hopefully not diminish it as we need it from our leaders.
As we have seen in the last few rounds with the assistance of Casboult to relieve some pressure as a lone KP he will relish the freedom and also thrive on field as this will relive some of the work load that a bigger bodied forward will assume the responsibilities of.
This in turn will ease some pressure on his body and hopefully will be able to string some games together for us.
When he was younger his confidence wasn’t where it should have been but now with this new position I hope he has grown and will elevate him to the player we all hoped he would become.
This is his chance to stand up and become a mentor and leader to the the younger talls before they take over and it's a great move to force him to do so.
If we are to be a candidate for the flag Waite will need to lead the charge and this is what Mick brings to Carlton.
No more side stepping and coasting stand up and be counted. :fight:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:25 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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wondering what Laidler lacks to be missing out ?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Rexy wrote:
wondering what Laidler lacks to be missing out ?


Knee stability?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
Rexy wrote:
wondering what Laidler lacks to be missing out ?


Knee stability?



nah probably gunna play more games than waite.. id say.... he doesnt play in the forward line.....

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Rexy wrote:
wondering what Laidler lacks to be missing out ?


Knee stability?



nah probably gunna play more games than waite.. id say.... he doesnt play in the forward line.....


well, leadership's about attitude & discipline - not sure Waitey's excelled in those areas in the past - hoping he's had a recent epiphany


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Rexy wrote:
wondering what Laidler lacks to be missing out ?


Knee stability?



nah probably gunna play more games than waite.. id say.... he doesnt play in the forward line.....


well, leadership's about attitude & discipline - not sure Waitey's excelled in those areas in the past - hoping he's had a recent epiphany

Cant lead from the hospital ward either.

Plus he gives away more free kicks per minute on the ground than just about anybody....

LEADERSHIP!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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redback wrote:
Great move involving Waite in the leadership group. :thumbsup:
He is our X factor.



In mathematics "x" is unknown - so given Waite's output the last 3 years is about 12 game a season - I take it this means that "x" in this case = 10, but in Waite's case its usually a case of 10 whats.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Donstuie wrote:
In a perfect world you'd like to think at least half the team would've put their hand up.


How does anyone know whether half the team did not nominate?

The leadership team was trimmed from 9 members to 5.

There might have been 20 or so that nominated but only 5 got chosen.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Kade Simpson as captain is easily the best choice.


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