AGM 17 December – Ruffy Geminder pops in (see p8)

camel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:19 pm

JohnM posted this critique of the I AM CARLTON campaign in the membership thread. It gives us an alternate and considered view on the disconnect between board and members:

viewtopic.php?p=1327155#p1327155

JohnM wrote:

...You keep this shit simple.

Our song starts with the words 'We are the Navy Blues'.

The song uses the collective 'We' five times. We love the song: the song is possibly our second most important brand asset, behind the jumper.

Like Pavlov's dog, when we hear the song, we get emotional. We remember the boys singing it after a win. We hear it after every victory. We crave it. Those who are old enough, get choked up a bit when we hear it, because it reminds us of great deeds.

Like Collingwood used 'Side by Side' (admittedly as an emergency replacement for their disastrous 'I am beautiful' or whatever it was campaign).

You shouldn't be clever with this. Allegiance to a footy club is a base thing, purely emotional. Play off that, use the assets you have, and be consistent.

Why pay a pretty average advertising agency to come up with something that's half as good as what we've already got? Makes no sense.

If I headed up the CFC marketing sub-committee, I'd be saying 'we're not here to invent: we're here to identify our heart & soul assets, and amplify the hell out of them'.

I AM Carlton is individualistic and boastful, and emotionally impotent. Just another slogan in a sea of slogans, and a missed opportunity. It says what you are, it doesn't say what we are.

But I guess it reflects where the club has been: not very good at creating a sense of inclusiveness. So perhaps it's honest, I'll give it that.

Synbad · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:21 pm

Punishment was over the top..... a reprieve?

anywayy....... hope we get some genuine answers in regards to our concerns.

Obviously alot of untapped potential for the club if it can pull its finger out

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:01 am

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?

This relates back to the question AGRO asked. In the same period of time I've fielded about 8 calls regarding the $200 raffle from a third party.

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

From the outside looking in these are my questions and observations;

The club did not seem well prepared for the introduction of free agency, I know we did not lose any players of note but we did not gain any players and got stuck with contracted players that no other club wanted. From a list management point of view it seems that there was a distinct lack of planning? The club was aware that free agency was going to be introduced well in advance.

The Judd/Visy deal; The membership got mix messages about what happened here? The CEO said that the Judd/Visy proposal was in at league headquarters for approval several months ago but Adrian Anderson said that the club revised the deal several times along the way and that the final proposal was provided in October? Is this another case of lack of planning?

As a board member are you able to self assess your own performance to date? What is it that you bring to the board, and it is a very large board at the moment, that current board members can't bring to the table?

Do you have aspirations to be President of the Carlton Football Club at the end of the year?

askruffy · **Joined:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:34 pm **Posts:** 10

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Stephen M wrote:

Under the new system, there is no longer a process of having to be "registered" to vote. The new membership application form provides the necessary consent in terms of liability in the event of a winding up (to $50) and once a person pays for their membership or agrees to do so by instalments, that person is a registered member and entitled to vote if they become at least an 11 game member. A direct debit arrangement has been in place for at least the last year so hopefully this will result in a greater number of automatic renewals. Otherwise, it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case. For some reason, we seem to have many apathetic supporters who don't purchase memberships. I well accept that there are also aggrieved supporters who won't take out membership for principle reasons, such as is the case with some long distance supporters.

Is this an accurate reflection of how the board sees supporters? As being apathetic and having an "all will be right" attitude?
Is it really a mystery why membership renewals are behind other clubs? If so, what are we doing, as a club, to encourage supporters to join earlier?
Do we have a realistic strategy to attract supporters and turn them into members? By realistic, I mean one that doesn't centre around us recruiting a new coach and getting off to a good start to the season.
What are we doing to make supporters feel valued and a real part of the club?

Thanks TruBlueBrad - I can certainly see that this is an issue a lot of members are raising and I think this is one of if not the most important issues for me at this stage. I cannot comment on behalf of the board but personally, I do not see any of that apathy in this forum or any of the others I have become a member of. If anything, what all of you have been saying suggests that you care deeply for Carlton and the game itself, which I want to try and support in whatever ways I can.

In my opinion you have to improve communication with members. You have to talk to them and find out what they want from their membership, then aim to deliver it as best you can. If we can do that then other supporters will see what members get and think "I want some of that too". A number of you have already posted about interstate and overseas memberships and this is something I am going to look into as well (I will reply to this in a bit). But overall the main thing I think (just personally) is showing members that they are being heard and that being a member gives you a voice to change things.

harker · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am **Posts:** 2345

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?

Reading through some of the questions posed to Ruffy here, may well be difficult for him to answer, but this one is not.

When you're CEO's answer to the question of why the membership is stagnant is, "Good Question" you have reasons for concern.
Other teams have got onto a roll and increasing memberships by way of inclusion and making supporters feel part of the process, yet we haven't.
The back room workings may well be very different, but there seems to be little energy or enthusiasm generated via the head office at the club and the continued reading of such posts as above makes me just a little angry, quite frankly.

askruffy · **Joined:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:34 pm **Posts:** 10

grrofunger wrote:

I agree with a lot of what Scotty said.

But I dont think its within the clubs control to an extent with having to pay for access to interstate games (even as an interstate member) as the ticketing wouldnt be controlled by the club.

I know being in WA and how shit Subiaco is - that to even get the chance of getting a ticket , i need to be a member to even get access to purchase a ticket and then also have to jump on the phone at 9am on the day they are released to try and secure and purchase a ticket.

This is due to the limited number of seats Subiaco/Eagles/Freo/AFL release for visiting clubs.

But overall yes - us ugly, inconvenient, unable to vote, insignificant interstate members do pay a lot of money for very little value and return from the club.

thank you grrofunger and Scotty for your thoughts - a lot of other members seem to be voicing the same concerns as well. We have no control over where the AFL schedules games and there are as you say quite a few logistics issues involved in getting the same deal for interstate members as those in VIC. However this is certainly something we want to think about further as getting more members (by listening to what existing ones want) is something I personally am quite passionate about. I'm sorry I can't give you more definite answer about what we will do at this stage but I am giving it a lot of thought at present and will raise it when I can.

SCotty I think there is more than a little merit to your ideas about events and other incentives which are aimed at interstate members. I think the challenge for us is to work out how to get the logistics right and to get a better idea of how we can improve. If any others have suggestions I will be very grateful as well.

askruffy · **Joined:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:34 pm **Posts:** 10

harker wrote:

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?

Reading through some of the questions posed to Ruffy here, may well be difficult for him to answer, but this one is not.

When you're CEO's answer to the question of why the membership is stagnant is, "Good Question" you have reasons for concern.
Other teams have got onto a roll and increasing memberships by way of inclusion and making supporters feel part of the process, yet we haven't.
The back room workings may well be very different, but there seems to be little energy or enthusiasm generated via the head office at the club and the continued reading of such posts as above makes me just a little angry, quite frankly.

thanks harker for your honesty. I have tried to answer with my own thoughts in a post just before and this whole experience has really highlighted for me the importance of listening to members more closely. will be keeping all this in mind as part of my role and I think being more clear about what we are doing is definitely something i want to work on more (w/ forums, social media, etc)

bluegirl72 · **Joined:** Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm **Posts:** 23921

askruffy wrote:

TruBlueBrad wrote:

Stephen M wrote:

Under the new system, there is no longer a process of having to be "registered" to vote. The new membership application form provides the necessary consent in terms of liability in the event of a winding up (to $50) and once a person pays for their membership or agrees to do so by instalments, that person is a registered member and entitled to vote if they become at least an 11 game member. A direct debit arrangement has been in place for at least the last year so hopefully this will result in a greater number of automatic renewals. Otherwise, it has always been a mystery as to why our membership renewals are so far behind other clubs. Personally, i think there is a view that "all will be right" because we are a wealthy club with many wealthy benefactors - which is far from the case. For some reason, we seem to have many apathetic supporters who don't purchase memberships. I well accept that there are also aggrieved supporters who won't take out membership for principle reasons, such as is the case with some long distance supporters.

Is this an accurate reflection of how the board sees supporters? As being apathetic and having an "all will be right" attitude?
Is it really a mystery why membership renewals are behind other clubs? If so, what are we doing, as a club, to encourage supporters to join earlier?
Do we have a realistic strategy to attract supporters and turn them into members? By realistic, I mean one that doesn't centre around us recruiting a new coach and getting off to a good start to the season.
What are we doing to make supporters feel valued and a real part of the club?

Thanks TruBlueBrad - I can certainly see that this is an issue a lot of members are raising and I think this is one of if not the most important issues for me at this stage. I cannot comment on behalf of the board but personally, I do not see any of that apathy in this forum or any of the others I have become a member of. If anything, what all of you have been saying suggests that you care deeply for Carlton and the game itself, which I want to try and support in whatever ways I can.

In my opinion you have to improve communication with members. You have to talk to them and find out what they want from their membership, then aim to deliver it as best you can. If we can do that then other supporters will see what members get and think "I want some of that too". A number of you have already posted about interstate and overseas memberships and this is something I am going to look into as well (I will reply to this in a bit). But overall the main thing I think (just personally) is showing members that they are being heard and that being a member gives you a voice to change things.

Yes!!! Thankyou Ruffy.
On that point. Nothing makes me angrier..(err..well, that's not really true... :grin:

) but, It makes me
very cross when, up until now, you(the board) have spent God knows what on those contrived questionaires, which really just give you the answers you want to get. No room for real opinions or feelings on various matters.
You coming on these forums, and interacting with the clubs passionate supporters, will save money, and take you to the heart of matters. (do you want a cap with that??)No!!!
Your caps SUCK btw!! I challenge anyone to look good in them, including Megan and Twigs. :razz:

I'd like to see a loyalty/reward system regarding finals tickets too. There should be an advantage to continous membership when GF time rolls around again. Not just a random lotto for all CC members.
Especially not a 'wealthiest in 1st' system, which I can see you lot going for.
eg: Neil Young takes out the Premium front row seats at his concerts, because he got sick of seeing people at the front who couldn't care less about his music, but knew someone, and were rich.
Ask him about fans and popularity. You could win a lot more fans back by acknowledging that it is the Everyman/woman who make this club great. Treat us as your most valuable assets, because we are.

How come you guys don't already know this??

kind regards
bg72.

harker · **Joined:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am **Posts:** 2345

askruffy wrote:

harker wrote:

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Welcome Ruffy.

The club continually states a goal to increase membership. I have not been a member for the last 3 years, I won't bore you with the reasons why. However, in that time I have fielded a grand sum of zero phone calls from CFC asking me to rejoin/why I lapsed, etc. Focusing on this area is surely an easy win for the club?

Reading through some of the questions posed to Ruffy here, may well be difficult for him to answer, but this one is not.

When you're CEO's answer to the question of why the membership is stagnant is, "Good Question" you have reasons for concern.
Other teams have got onto a roll and increasing memberships by way of inclusion and making supporters feel part of the process, yet we haven't.
The back room workings may well be very different, but there seems to be little energy or enthusiasm generated via the head office at the club and the continued reading of such posts as above makes me just a little angry, quite frankly.

thanks harker for your honesty. I have tried to answer with my own thoughts in a post just before and this whole experience has really highlighted for me the importance of listening to members more closely. will be keeping all this in mind as part of my role and I think being more clear about what we are doing is definitely something i want to work on more (w/ forums, social media, etc)

You coming here Ruffy is one of the best things that has happened for the disenfranchised and sadly as Synbad has stated, there are plenty.

Losing one member for being disillusioned can well have a multiplying effect when the kids also don't get signed up, the mate doesn't have his mate to go to the football with etc etc
Members are gold and should be treated as such and as many arguments I may have had with Synbad on these boards in respect to this issue, he has been right more often than me.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record and I know there are many other issues that may take precedence at times but a happy supporter base is king.

cecil89 · **Joined:** Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm **Posts:** 2521

A question on a different topic (although i think the connection with supporters is clearly the clubs biggest issue).

Q: Has the re-branding of the reserves team to the 'Northern Blues' resulted in any identifiable gains? It has been discussed on this board previously that there are potential marketing opportunities that come with the 'Northern' name and the area. Has the club identified any ways of utilising the reserves team to help attract members / supporters to the club?

camel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 am

Ruffy, this may be a daft question in a way, but can you give us some idea of what being a board member entails. Is it as simple as meeting once a month, or whatever, and going through a set list of agenda items, or is there more to it on a day to day basis.

As an outsider it excites me a lot to see the likes of Ahmed Fahour and Luke Sayers coming onto our board, but I must admit that's because they're seen as heavy hitters from the corporate world so I assume they will bring that clout to Carlton, like we used to have.

But I'm interested to understand more about the way our club works and the roles each board member plays and how their unique skills and attributes can be used to better the footy club.

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room to you directly, so I may as well.

Stephen Kernahan as president. There is a growing perception among the supporter base that Sticks isn't the right man for the job. I understand this is not the best format for you to discuss this topic, but hope you can make some comment that can maybe even disprove the perception Sticks is out of his depth.

We know he will be stepping down after next season so perhaps the discussion is moot.

I hate asking these questions about Sticks, as a South Australian myself, it's not too much of a stretch to say I worshiped the ground he walked on when I was a teenager in the 1980s. He gave me, and countless others of course, so much joy thanks to his stellar playing career. But as the sole survivor of the Elliott administration I just think the members have been taken for a ride and Sticks' exceptional on-field record has given him a teflon coating which has been used to his advantage but perhaps not the footy club's.

Without having the best understanding of how a footy club board operates my expectations of a club president are that it should be a person that can publicly represent our club with distinction, grace and, when required, they should be able to clearly communicate the club's message/direction to the members and/or wider public. Even better if they can defend the club in a concise and respectful manner or be a true leader in the game on broader issues affecting the AFL.

A couple of times last year Sticks was found lacking when being asked to comment on the future of his mate Brett Ratten. It pains me to say it, but it was embarrassing to watch at times.

Am I right to expect the club president should be better than that?

To me it's just another aspect where Carlton is again too far behind the leading clubs in the AFL.

We need to move forward and genuinely embrace the modern world. For all of Sticks' excellent qualities he's a bit of a relic and he could be used to benefit the club in many ways; I just don't think the role of president was ever the right fit for him.

Donstuie · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:17 am

Thanks for your input and presence here Ruffy, hopefully you won't be a stranger to us on the boards :beer:

As you've already noticed, many of us have the same concerns with the same areas. But my question relates specifically to our communications. Last year the club took positive steps to promote itself through social media particularly through Luca's work. However, the comms for the club still seem (from the outside looking in) reactive, a step behind the other big clubs in terms of imagination and innovation. It's also the opinion of many that our continued perception as tankers, salary cap cheats (including blatant untruths about our 1995 premiership being continually spouted in the media) and of course "the Judd deal" is a factor in our inibility to attract new supporters, and we rarely hear a whimper in response to defend our image and our brand (the exception being the recent authorless article clarifying our players' VISY involvement). We don't seem to see any raw passion from the people in charge, we seem impotent, without a united, clear message and with no-one to lead the troops (we may not like McGuire, but he's clearly the General and someone people can get behind).

This may not be the case in real life, but perception is reality. Are there any plans in place to improve our image, make ourselves more appealing to those not yet initiated, and to get on the front foot in the public domain?

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:40 am

Actually Ruffy, membership does not indeed give you a voice at the club.
In theory yes, but the reality is members dont really have a voice.
AGM people are uncomfortable bringing up concerns
People wishing to run for the board are being discouraged one way or another and even blamed for the costs that elections bring with them.
Board members are invited onto the board and then as everybody else has been discouraged the election process then becomes a run through for them when they're up.
Club icons are used as a human shield to protect others on that board from a political backlash cos nobody wants to kill ba mbi or nobody will stand against bambi .

Personally i feel the club has been taken away from the ordinary supporter.
With the game being sanitised and whitewashed (sharing stadiums.. draft not a zone etc ..social club experience gone..watching training all but gone.. complete wth security guards waiting to evict . ) and the emphasis of football on tv(Goodness gracious me.. the telecasts are fantastic these days...) i think the club has to move closer to its supporters and open itself up rather than move away and distance itself and put up the shutters.

Thats a sure fire way to shoot yourself on the foot.

No way i do believe buying a membership gives me a meaningful voice at the club.

Those that do will often say its a donation if they dont go along to every game.I was doing that as often i dont have the time to get to the games live.. especially friday nights...
I can go home... coock up a ribeye steak and open a bottle of Shiraz and just relax in front of my surround sound 60 inch tv with mesmerising colour and replays special comments.. interchange bench whos on whos off at my fingertips.. climate control.. no looking for parking.. no public transport to catch stuck ina carriage with gloating Collingwood supporters....etc etc etc

Its the new Don Burkes back yard....!!!

So you guys need to draw me back to the club with something other than telling me who and what i am.

I might be Carlton... but i am also a dad... a mum.. a surfer.. a coin collector... a son .. a daughter.. a book reader.. a baker.. a lawyer...fish and chips shop owner...i am complex... 2013 is complex.... i must divide myself in many pieces.
Giving me less and less and telling me to part with my hard earned cos "I am Carlton" is arrogant!!

Carlton is one of many things i love...apart from family and job none of the other things i love demand from me anything....

Thats how i see it.

I might not be the kind of guy youre chasing to become a member....too hard basket for you guys perhaps.

But that is the difference between a mid forty thousand member club and a 50 tonne gorrilla made of steel and firing laser beams from his eyes.

Warby · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:57 am

camelboy wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room to you directly, so I may as well.

Stephen Kernahan as president. There is a growing perception among the supporter base that Sticks isn't the right man for the job.

A couple of times last year Sticks was found lacking when being asked to comment on the future of his mate Brett Ratten. It pains me to say it, but it was embarrassing to watch at times.
Am I right to expect the club president should be better than that?

To me it's just another aspect where Carlton is again too far behind the leading clubs in the AFL.

We need to move forward and genuinely embrace the modern world. For all of Sticks' excellent qualities he's a bit of a relic and he could be used to benefit the club in many ways; I just don't think the role of president was ever the right fit for him.

Hi Ruffy.....thanks for listening to us; and I must add my 2 bobs worth to camel's thoughts.

I'll never forget the night Sticks held a Presser to explain Fevola's sacking, and Tony Jones of Channel 9 very pointedly asked Sticks....'''Why didn't you (the CFC) stop him making a fool of himself? ''(at the Brownlow).....no answer from Sticks.

Watching this on TV; we were screaming at the TV screen..."'Why doesn't Sticks ask him why 9 didn't stop him?''.....(as he was being employed by 9 that night doing Street Talk for the Footy Show)..... :confused:

....not good enough Sticks....not good enough.

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm

Warby wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room to you directly, so I may as well.

Stephen Kernahan as president. There is a growing perception among the supporter base that Sticks isn't the right man for the job.

A couple of times last year Sticks was found lacking when being asked to comment on the future of his mate Brett Ratten. It pains me to say it, but it was embarrassing to watch at times.
Am I right to expect the club president should be better than that?

To me it's just another aspect where Carlton is again too far behind the leading clubs in the AFL.

We need to move forward and genuinely embrace the modern world. For all of Sticks' excellent qualities he's a bit of a relic and he could be used to benefit the club in many ways; I just don't think the role of president was ever the right fit for him.

Hi Ruffy.....thanks for listening to us; and I must add my 2 bobs worth to camel's thoughts.

I'll never forget the night Sticks held a Presser to explain Fevola's sacking, and Tony Jones of Channel 9 very pointedly asked Sticks....'''Why didn't you (the CFC) stop him making a fool of himself? ''(at the Brownlow).....no answer from Sticks.

Watching this on TV; we were screaming at the TV screen..."'Why doesn't Sticks ask him why 9 didn't stop him?''.....(as he was being employed by 9 that night doing Street Talk for the Footy Show)..... :confused:

....not good enough Sticks....not good enough.

AS CEO where was Greg Swann that day???
Sticks isnt the most savvy media guy going around.. but surely the CEO should have some nouse.

zeecfc · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:44 pm **Posts:** 1021

Synbad wrote:

Warby wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room to you directly, so I may as well.

Stephen Kernahan as president. There is a growing perception among the supporter base that Sticks isn't the right man for the job.

A couple of times last year Sticks was found lacking when being asked to comment on the future of his mate Brett Ratten. It pains me to say it, but it was embarrassing to watch at times.
Am I right to expect the club president should be better than that?

To me it's just another aspect where Carlton is again too far behind the leading clubs in the AFL.

We need to move forward and genuinely embrace the modern world. For all of Sticks' excellent qualities he's a bit of a relic and he could be used to benefit the club in many ways; I just don't think the role of president was ever the right fit for him.

Hi Ruffy.....thanks for listening to us; and I must add my 2 bobs worth to camel's thoughts.

I'll never forget the night Sticks held a Presser to explain Fevola's sacking, and Tony Jones of Channel 9 very pointedly asked Sticks....'''Why didn't you (the CFC) stop him making a fool of himself? ''(at the Brownlow).....no answer from Sticks.

Watching this on TV; we were screaming at the TV screen..."'Why doesn't Sticks ask him why 9 didn't stop him?''.....(as he was being employed by 9 that night doing Street Talk for the Footy Show)..... :confused:

....not good enough Sticks....not good enough.

AS CEO where was Greg Swann that day???
Sticks isnt the most savvy media guy going around.. but surely the CEO should have some nouse.

Not sure Swann would give much more to be honest.

Donstuie · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:03 pm

I guess I have an answer to my question :lol:

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:07 pm

Youre probably right there Z.

But the think tank thought Sticks to pacify Carlton people... they didnt think football is about more than that..... and that this is a football story not just a Carlton story.
Get Sticks on and he will put a sad face on etc etc etc... and pacify the natives
...Greg Swann is collingwood...get the Carlton captain of the century to handle this.... :screwy:

Just a silly mentality.
Sticks might be able to handle Carlton people or some of us... but he

if youre a good CEO youll handle anything.!!!

Professional football is so much more than that now.
We just have to be more switched on....

CK95 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:42 pm

Ruffy, I have questions re our Monday night fixture against the Saints.

Next year will be the 4th season in a row we are fixtured to play them on a Monday night. I am assuming therefore that this is now pretty much a lock.

Was this something that was discussed & agreed to between the two clubs & the AFL or did we not have much say in it? To my knowledge there hasn’t been any official statement about the ongoing nature of this fixture from either the AFL or the footy club – it’s just popped up every year on the calendar since 2010.

Also, what are your views on Monday night footy?

AGM 17 December – Ruffy Geminder pops in (see p8)

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