Melbourne's net result of Free Agency was In: Byrnes, Pick #49, Out: Moloney, Rivers

It has been mentioned that by taking Byrnes as a FA rather than as a late pick trade or even delist they compromised their compensation.

I'm not going to dissect your post, because whilst I disagree I've learnt over the years to let opinions ride as long as it's been argued in a sensible way. I'll dispute facts, but I'm not going to change your opinion, and your not going to change mine so healthy debate should be encouraged.

My main gripe is the high esteem that in particular Young and Lynch have now reached since arriving at Collingwood. When it looked 90% sure that we were signing Lynch his thread in Talking Recruitment was full of regarding how Carlton were looking for the quick fix by signing a 30 year old who wasn't in West Coast best 22, whose only great year was 7 years ago, who was too small to play fwd/ruck, whose stats made him barely an upgrade on Thornton etc.

Same with Clinton Young. Barely raised a murmur around here, until Collingwood got him. 28, one decent season, poor decision maker, soft, injury prone.....and shock horror....is currently in a moon boot and wont start full training until January. The fact anyone would leave a Top 4 club would mean that they weren't offering him much of a contract, and the pick they received as compensation was indicative of that.

Young and Lynch would be fringe players at Carlton. Handy at best. This year best 22's made the grand final, not depth.

Now obviously the sticking point has been the Wellingham for player/pick and Dawes for player/pick, and as I've said earlier everyone is assuming they'll get a Fyfe rather than a Notte was both these picks. All this is though speculation, and what if's so we'll let history decide this.

My final question is that if everybody is so thrilled with what Collingwood have done, what similar trades did we knock back that could have seen us in the same position?

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"They're [REDACTED]'

No punter, I think we all too easily fall into this running mantra that everything is wrong with the club and everything we do, someone else does better. (Mostly everyone does better)

Not sure how far back you would need to look but I bet we'd find something along the lines of, "We should follow the Geelong model of recruitment as they develop from inside"
Well, guess what? Do the names McIntosh, Rivers and Caddy ring a bell?

I don't know anything as a 100% matter of fact but when you weigh up all the circumstances that eventuated over the past 12 months, I think you can see why we ended up where we are in relation to this current trade period.
I called 12 months ago that McKay entered the fray at a very awkward time after the exit of Icke, again under far from ideal circumstances.
Contracts had to be tidied up quickly for final list preparation and it's fair to say that he may have been strongly influenced by some at the club.
Anyway, that's history and the fact that we put our foot down to the point we risked losing players augurs well for the future.
I'm also liking these 1 * 1 contracts instead of the flat 2 years afforded so readily previously.

Yes, we made mistakes and as I've said before: I don't care that we didn't trade but I do care that should have we wanted to, our hands were largely tied.
List aside, the fact we had fractures in the organization and licence afforded to individuals to not have to communicate with one another, is quite pathetic.
How on earth can you get things done when the coach doesn't want to/can't communicate with other sectors of the footballing operation?

Again, that's all in the past, we've got the man we wanted and we start with a relatively clean slate.
Learn from history and don't dwell on it.

I agree Blueboy74.

My only beef is that we have 2-3 players under contract next year that should have been delisted. It would have been nice to have been able to recruit a couple more kids late in the draft however we were never in a position to land a "big fish" in this FA/trade period regardless.

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There is no footy god

The irony is that those on the positive side of the list management issue also compare us to other clubs. It's the old 'we can excuse the club because other clubs have been known to do it' chestnut.

I'm not interested in every decision by every club, I'm only interested in examples in context. The latest piece of wisdom on display in this thread is the fact that if a club does something positive because its hand was forced, then you can't call it positive*.



*Fevola for Henderson *cough*

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

My smarts haven't quite kicked in yet today, but I think you're referring to my post and in particular my suggestion that we gave ourselves little scope to move in this draft. Is that right?

How can I explain my sentiments? Let me see.

If you were set to go to battle but chose not to bring any arms but that battle was thwarted in the eleventh hour, was your decision not to bring any arms then justified?

The key question is
How good is our list
We nearly made a PF in 2011

were our efforts in 2012 due to injury and poor coaching

So how good is our list
The answer lies somewhere in the middle
MM is not the messiah
see how 2013 pans out
if 2013 doesnt work out then its time to trade heavily and rebuild for 2014 and beyond

blueboy - i don't think you quite got my point. Melbourne gave themselves the chance to move around, trade aggressively and improve their list. Part of that was around not running around mid year desperately signing up everyone on their list. They were prepared to let some of them dangle until they'd conducted their FA and trading business. Whether or not you think they got a great haul, well that's pretty much beside the point.

harker - as always good points reasonably made. However you've also proved my point. There is no 'model'. Geelong (Ottens aside) spent years focusing exclusively on the draft. Hawthorn made selective trades on top of great drafting. Sydney won this year with half their team coming off other lists. Collingwood won by topping up excellent drafting with trading selectively. I'm not interested in a particular model - I think the last 5-6 flgas have shown you can win any number of ways.

However - have any of those lists gone through two consecutive off-seasons by drafting only the minimum allotment? Our list is bloated with average triers who can't sensibly be considered to be a part of a premiership winning side. Guys who have been around for 3,4,5 years and been given chances. We don't need to go over the names again they've been done to death. Yet this football department, for two straight years has basically said - nothing to see here, no need for new talent, this group with serious durability and depth issues is just fine by us. Quick! Sign them up!! Last year was understandable given the draft structure. But to set up our list in such a shambolic way that for two years running we are bringing in the bare minimum (and only because we have to, it seems from afar) is awful stuff. We haven't even made a prelim with this bunch.

Going on with your example of geelong and whether those names ring a bell (yes I had heard of them, thanks). Geelong took advantage of the change in landscape, both the landscape of their list and the changing rules, to improve their list. They adjusted. Collingwood adjusted. Us? Just the same old mid season mad rush to sign players no one else is particularly interested in. (I stand corrected if anyone can point to the angry horde beating down the door to trade for anyone on our list)

I agree.

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dane's trolling again

Jon Ralph reckons blues knocked back Luke Parker for pick 11

Not sure that's quite what he said. Think he was just spit-balling

Good.

Who is Luke Parker?

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dane's trolling again

spidermans cousin

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Parker is the ripping youngster the Swans picked up and had a real impact early in 2012, before getting injured and only ending up a bit part player in the GF.

They have a handy knack of recruiting players to play midfield who can also double as strong small / mid defenders. Look at how we do it instead; we have to keep playing Joseph as a) we don't have other young mids / defenders coming through and b) our current mids are not flexible enough to do this, save say for Curnow. Armfield offers this but has proven to be of greater value in mid / HFF during 2012.

So AJ gets more games, and we cough it up!

Parker for #36 is more like it. #11 is overs, IMO.

Or a straight swap for Lucas perhaps?

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Blues need to hold nerve and Adelaide and Sydney will get more nervous and desperate as the week goes on
If they want a third party to be a circuit breaker for the trade they will need to pay over the odds for the third party involvement and that's when it could get interested

A straight swap for Lucas?

Sydney didn't get to be premiers by indulging in that sort of madness.

Parker played 19 games with the premiers and was injured for virtually every game he missed. He's a tough inside-mid who is a reasonable user.

Lucas played 8 games for a team that finished 10th (and was available pretty much every week). That after playing 2 games in 2011. From what I've seen he's an outside HBF/winger who can't kick and has little appetite for the contest.

Parker is worth close to 11. I wouldn't give 50 for Lucas.

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"You can't polish a James Hird"

TC has developed tradeitis.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Warnock to Saints?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... 281kn.html

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"I had to eat"

Also reported on AFL site

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

So what would be the deal to tempt us? I'm guessing pick 13 is off the table, I think 25 is maybe a little low, and I don't know there list well enough to know whether there is anyone there they'd give up that we'd want and at a package we'd take.