Actually Stamos, what was wrong was all in your post.

Lynch at least is a break even vs Dawes considering the role they want that position to play, i.e. forward/ruck. And calling that a break even is being incredibly kind to Dawes. Wellingham was rarely more than a bit part player at Collingwood. Walsh said as much when the trade was going down, I think privately they were happy to see the back of him, and absolutely delighted to do so and pick up #17 in the process.

So;

Ruck/forward role - they have recruited a player better suited to the position with a 2-3 year shelf life. In doing so, they have not only saved some salary in that position, they picked up #20 and a better 3rd (I think) round choice as well. Which *gasp* will be potentially used to draft a younger version of Dawes/Lynch and given a couple of years in the development system to get ready while Lynch covers for him.

Outside mid role - they recruited a player who flashed potential without ever consistently delivering. To replace a player who flashed potential without ever.... you get the point. Oh and they picked up #17 in the process, and probably are paying Young less that what they would have been paying Wellingham if he had of stayed.

I hate their supporters, but let's face it. They absolutely sh*t on us when it comes to managing a list (and a club, for that matter). Are we sure we can't find a bit part average sized player to whom we can offer a long term extension, just to make sure we've got zero flexibility in our list and cap next year as well? It must be so much easier for the footy department at this time of year knowing that even if we did see a way to improve our list, we're completely hamstrung and unable to participate.

Hey at least no one can kill them for a bad deal this year, right?

I don't think how Wellingham goes from here on in is relevant one way or the other but you are right about pick 17.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

good post Punter agree with your sentiments

So do I.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

What's causing my frustration is all a symptom of the root cause - that being it seems clear to m that we either;

a) put no thought into the opportunities free agency presented to us in managing our list

b) did put thought into and got it horribly wrong

c) had the wrong people looking at it in the first place

d) totally misread large sections of our list and their value in the market (and still potentially do)

e) all of the above.

We've been caught completely flat footed by smart, well organised and well resourced clubs. Where have I heard that before??

Apparently we've improved our list because we've got less blokes under the knife (I am not sure how that impacts on kicking skills, poise and not giving away stupid free kicks, but [insert condescending email from those 'involved' with the club here] I clearly have no idea about how clubs could or should go about improving their list. I should sit back with a smile on my face, buy my membership and trust that the awesome power of the combined brains trust which has overseen the 'development' of our list to this point will transform themselves into a unit which can compete with the likes of Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn in manipulating the rules to our favour.

Surprise surprise, I disagree that having less blokes under the knife means we are going to have a better list than 2012.

I reckon we should have MORE blokes under the knife. Do some talent grafts on the likes of Joseph, Davies, Ellard, Curnow. Stitch some steel into Jeffy, give Eddie a few inches so he can really be our lead up CHF. Cut a slice out of Watson's huge arse in the hopes he might pick up a yard or two of pace. Give that slice to Bootsma. Take some of AW's biceps and give it to Warnock.

[youtube]SYkbqzWVHZI[/youtube]

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Well put Punter...succinct imo.

Nothing equals nothing.

I don't think they think in Carlton land...seriously slack imo.

There was plenty of talent to target...maybe the potential targets don't want to be part of some prehistoric regime from the ice age...really disappointing and it shows they haven't got any idea...unless they pull a beauty during trade period...which we were led to believe.

If there isn't a Trade done to improve our list and we don't end top 4 let alone win the flag...I'm not wasting my time on them after season 2013...I will still love the Blues, but I'm going to go skiing more than I do during winter....and visit the Greek Islands which I have neglected for this last miserable Navy Blue decade.

There's still hope we can have a great year....as long as we don't have too many injuries because we don't bast too deep for a team wanting to win a flag.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Gees I hope we get Parker and mckernan and trade Warnock !

That's the case for most teams BB. Cant remember one injury riddled team that has ever won a flag.

Talk about batting deep, yet Sydney had just 30 players play games this year. With around 90% (513 out of the 550 games 25x22) played by a core of just 23 guys. Hawks were similar (503 out of 550 from 23 guys).

If you'd rank Sydney's list by depth then it hardly makes for frightening reading. IMO you'd have something like.

Pyke - 21
Morton - 22
Everitt - 23
DennisLane - 24
Armstrong - 25
Seaby - 26
Jesse White - 27
Walsh - 28
Cunnigham - 29
Rohan (injured for season, but obviously much higher) - 30

Hawks also gave away their about 22th and 25th player away in FA for nothing.

Their similar ranked players would be:

Young - 22
Ellis - 23
Osborne - 24
Murphy - 25
Gilham - 26
Cheney - 27
Hill - 28
Bateman - 29
Bailey - 30

Remember there are still 8 or so players on each of their lists - even after those mentioned - that had no bearing on their 2012.

Without going over old ground we need to do a lot of things better next year including: a) list management, b) better management of injured players and c) having those players that replace injured players having a better understanding of their role, but at the end of the day there is too much grief being poured into the fact that players such as Joseph, Davies, Collins and Ellard are going to be around our (at this stage) 35th-41nd players picked each week when you consider that rookie list guys Curnow, Bell and Casboult - and some would include ROK and Dale - are proabably all ahead of them....

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"They're [REDACTED]'

It's not a matter of Lynch being a better second ruck/forward than Dawes. It's a matter of Lynch being better than the likes of Hampson, Naitanui, Roughead, etc. to give them enough to win the flag. I'd back second rucks against a 30 year old pinch hitter who can't jump and won't be allowed to wrestle. The Jolly that will go around next year isn't the same player who made a huge difference to their team two years ago. Leigh Brown wouldn't have looked as great without an in form Jolly beside him. You could see this going pear shaped if they're forced to rely on Wood, Ceglar and Witts. Don't forget Carlton were largely given a wrap three years ago for getting Mclean.

Wellingham wasn't a downhill skier like Young. If there's a softer player than Wellingham, it's Young who is totally outside.

That's a cheap shot.

It's a shot, certainly, but I don't know how 'cheap' it is. I don't have much experience with that expression and I have certainly never really analysed how it does or doesn't fit in this case. We probably won't have to find another player for next year, anyway, it will most likely be the same ones.

However, cheap would be a word to describe our list management. They have admitted as much in at least one interview from the club, as if it is an excuse and that they admit they need one.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

If we're not going to bother analysing the suitability of cheap shot to this discussion, then we are not really taking things seriously enough. This club will never move forward if TC cannot address the real issues

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Like Raph?

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

+1

+2

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Take away one point for me. Too melodramatic for mine.

Said the king of spain to Columbus.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Kouta, without going on a quote fest here, let me summarise my response to your thoughts on young/lynch vs Dawes/wellingham;

I thought we were in a list management thread. So in my mind, from collingwood's perspective the equation of;

Dawes/wellingham = lynch/young/#17/#20/better 3rd

Is fantastic list management. If you want to have a discussion about whether that means they'll win the flag next year, lets pop over to Talking AFL. However suffice to say from my view they will be better off with Lynch and Young.

I couldn't care less if you think I have taken a 'cheap shot'. Is it an inaccurate one though? Did you see McKays interview on CFC TV? It was really inspiring stuff, a bloke basically leaning back in his chair and saying.. 'Well if the deal of the millennium drops in our laps we might do something, but seeing how we've stitched up 1 through 38 on our list and put ourselves in a straight-jacket, I'm just reading he paper like everyone else this month.'

We totally missed the train on free agency, that's clear. Even Melbourne had it figured out, by holding off on signing lower ranked players to see what they could do to IMPROVE.

From my mind, two years with us taking on the minimum draft intake with a list which clearly isn't he best in the league is awful. If we were reeling off flags for fun, I would have a different view, naturally. Particularly given the view that the drafting over the last few years has been average at best (at least that is my view - I can hear the howls of derision from club apologists coming now).

Ha! So you don't disagree with the substance, harker?

Not what I would have expected...

Lynch and Young LOL

As for Dawes and Wellingham.... its not fantastic list management. They both wanted to leave so trades had be made.

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dane's trolling again