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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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WOW! :eek: :eek:

That is going to take some processing after the past 2 months. I'll get back to you.........................or not.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:57 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Cazzesman wrote:
WOW! :eek: :eek:

That is going to take some processing after the past 2 months. I'll get back to you.........................or not.

Regards Cazzesman


Why is it any different?

I thought I had been clear. He wasn't the coach for now.

People change, people make mistakes, people improve, people learn.

Today was the right move for the club and for Ratten.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Robert Walls

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ThePsychologist wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
WOW! :eek: :eek:

That is going to take some processing after the past 2 months. I'll get back to you.........................or not.

Regards Cazzesman


Why is it any different?

I thought I had been clear. He wasn't the coach for now.

People change, people make mistakes, people improve, people learn.

Today was the right move for the club and for Ratten.



And deep down, I think Ratts knows it as well. Go and learn under different coaches, go overseas to look at sports clubs, develop himself and maybe a second stint at Carlton is not out of the question in 7-10 years. After all, he's only 41.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Quote:

He has three cups. He has left every club he coached in a much better position than when he took over.

What you will see:

1. A very well drilled side with all players clearly knowing their roles.
2. Better development and use of the kids
3. The reserves will be closely aligned to the seniors and playing the same way
4. A game plan and structure to match any side.
5. Minimum standards that will need to be met by every player on the list.


sounds pretty good to me. With ratts basically admitting that we carried blokes thoughout the year, some of our fragile players could be in for a much needed shock.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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thegezman wrote:
Quote:

He has three cups. He has left every club he coached in a much better position than when he took over.

What you will see:

1. A very well drilled side with all players clearly knowing their roles.
2. Better development and use of the kids
3. The reserves will be closely aligned to the seniors and playing the same way
4. A game plan and structure to match any side.
5. Minimum standards that will need to be met by every player on the list.


sounds pretty good to me. With ratts basically admitting that we carried blokes thoughout the year, some of our fragile players could be in for a much needed shock.

Have to agree there at least. For years we envied Collingwood's ability to blood new players who just seemed 'ready'. Let's not pretend Mick didn't at least have something to do with that.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 am
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thegezman wrote:
Quote:

He has three cups. He has left every club he coached in a much better position than when he took over.

What you will see:

1. A very well drilled side with all players clearly knowing their roles.
2. Better development and use of the kids
3. The reserves will be closely aligned to the seniors and playing the same way
4. A game plan and structure to match any side.
5. Minimum standards that will need to be met by every player on the list.


sounds pretty good to me. With ratts basically admitting that we carried blokes thoughout the year, some of our fragile players could be in for a much needed shock.
Point 5 is actually complete rubbish. Malthouse plays favourites as much as coach in the league. It's just a question of which players on the list Mick chooses to give the Didak, Swan, Tarrant, Shaw treatment to. There will be minimum standards for some but certainly not for all if his Collingwood career is anything to go by. The rest of his post depends as much on who we get as assistants and who is overseeing development day to day as it does on Malthouse.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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I find it strange that a lot of the people sympathising for Ratten had none for Brad Fisher who got the lemonade and sarse stranded on 99 games............Carlton is ruthless ? that wasnt ruthless.It was cruel ,callous and heartless............whoever was responsable for that dog act gets no sympathy from me.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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Wild Blue Yonder wrote:
Hey, I'm back. Been away a bit and then couldn't get going.
Anything happening?

Can't remember anything you used to say...but boy I've missed your avatar!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
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AGRO wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
When all the emotion settles down I really believe that Ratten would look upon this as a very positive time in his career.

He was appointed to a role at a High Profile club ahead of his time. Worse still it was a club he loved. In reality he wasn't ready. That was always my complaint.

He took over a basket case and played in finals. This year has been tough and I believe his philosophy to coaching will have drastically changed. His belief in development, blooding kids, giving players time to settle will have been altered.

He will now go home, probably discuss with experienced personnel and family what he has done right and wrong. People who know him. He will assess and improve.

He will now get a job with another club (asst or senior coach) and he will be so much better prepared. He will take confidence in how he has performed and the reaction of many.

He is 41. He has only 6 years experience at AFL level. He will get better and in time become a damn good coach and I hope one day he will be back at the club.

FWIW I believe he should go to GWS. A year or two under Sheedy will do him wonders and allow him time and experience. He may well then be ready to step up again. More experienced and better prepared.

Whatever he does I have no doubt he will be successful. I look forward to watching the next chapter of his career. He deserves success. :clap:




A bit like Walls served an apprenticeship at Fitzroy then coached Carlton - I think sometime in the future Ratten will coach Carlton again. :wink:

Both of the above.

I've been on the fence about Ratts as coach for a long time and this week I thought: he has improved every year, although can be a slow learner, so give him next year with hopefully a full list and then go for Roos if necessary after that (who would then be available). [And with the money they save they can buy us long-suffering members special scarves for next year with the inscription "Well we think we've turned the corner, hopefully this time".]
MM has the hard edge our current list needs but I reckon Roos is young enough to stay around long enough to build the culture we have been craving for years. And that culture would stay there for some time.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 am 
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Rod Ashman

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The Spornstar wrote:
AGRO wrote:


@ Jake Niall - what a load of bollocks. :roll:

We gave Ratten all the resources he or any other Senior Coach could have wanted - and Jake Niall you have acknowleged this yourself in your own article. :roll:

Complete faith is up to the Coach to deliver - the side has been undeniably flaky over the past 4 years.

Where are the wins against top 4 sides?

Where are our consistent run of wins - 4+ wins in a row???

We win a 2 lose 1, we win 3 then lose 1. We delivery 7 wins 4 losses in one half of a season only to delivery 4 wins and 7 losses in the next half of a season.

If alone Ratten had of delivered a side that could win 4 or 5 games in a row on a regular basis, found a way to beat Hawthorn then he would have had all the faith from everyone who could have wanted.

But seriously Jake Niall - what writing/reporting standards have you been given at your paper to live up to, as we know clearly not much. :roll:



I thought it was a pretty good article actually. It’s certainly something I have sensed as a supporter – a lack of faith in Ratten despite the improvement we saw in our performance. Last year was probably the best example of that.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Niall was saying that despite less success than Ratts, a guy like Hardwick has had more faith instilled in him by Richmond. Where are Richmond’s consistent runs of 4 wins in a row?


I agree with you.

Throughout at least the last three seasons, I've sensed that, despite measureable on-field improvement, the club, for whatever reason, never truly believed in Ratten. I think Niall's P-Plate analogy is an apt one. The trouble for the club was that year-on-year improvement meant that actually sacking Ratten was a decidely awkward proposition. But the fact that we will miss the finals in 2012 (despite obvious extenuating circumstances) meant that the club could paint 2012 as a failure and finally provided the club with a basis (however misguided) upon which it could justify a decision to remove Ratten.

I'm on record as saying that I believe that Ratten deserved the opportunity to coach in 2013 and I still believe that he deserved that opportunity. Although I'm not surprised by it, I think his sacking is incredibly harsh in the circumstances, but it's happened now and we need to move forward. One thing is for sure though, now that Ratten is gone, the reaction on talkback radio and from certain posters on this site will be interesting when we lose a few games next season...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mickstar wrote:
I find it strange that a lot of the people sympathising for Ratten had none for Brad Fisher who got the lemonade and sarse stranded on 99 games............Carlton is ruthless ? that wasnt ruthless.It was cruel ,callous and heartless............whoever was responsable for that dog act gets no sympathy from me.


They are not really that similar.

From my point of view the only coaching departure I got upset about was Jezza. It was self inflicted but I still blamed the club. But I was a kid.

Got over that as well eventually.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:03 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Effes wrote:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/why-blues-ditched-their-probationary-coach-20120830-252io.html

Jake Niall wrote:
Carlton did what Carlton does.

First bit of respect we've received from the media in ages!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Mickstar wrote:
I find it strange that a lot of the people sympathising for Ratten had none for Brad Fisher who got the lemonade and sarse stranded on 99 games............Carlton is ruthless ? that wasnt ruthless.It was cruel ,callous and heartless............whoever was responsable for that dog act gets no sympathy from me.

jesus christ, get over it :roll:

EARN


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GAME!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blues2005 wrote:
The Spornstar wrote:
AGRO wrote:


@ Jake Niall - what a load of bollocks. :roll:

We gave Ratten all the resources he or any other Senior Coach could have wanted - and Jake Niall you have acknowleged this yourself in your own article. :roll:

Complete faith is up to the Coach to deliver - the side has been undeniably flaky over the past 4 years.

Where are the wins against top 4 sides?

Where are our consistent run of wins - 4+ wins in a row???

We win a 2 lose 1, we win 3 then lose 1. We delivery 7 wins 4 losses in one half of a season only to delivery 4 wins and 7 losses in the next half of a season.

If alone Ratten had of delivered a side that could win 4 or 5 games in a row on a regular basis, found a way to beat Hawthorn then he would have had all the faith from everyone who could have wanted.

But seriously Jake Niall - what writing/reporting standards have you been given at your paper to live up to, as we know clearly not much. :roll:



I thought it was a pretty good article actually. It’s certainly something I have sensed as a supporter – a lack of faith in Ratten despite the improvement we saw in our performance. Last year was probably the best example of that.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Niall was saying that despite less success than Ratts, a guy like Hardwick has had more faith instilled in him by Richmond. Where are Richmond’s consistent runs of 4 wins in a row?


I agree with you.

Throughout at least the last three seasons, I've sensed that, despite measureable on-field improvement, the club, for whatever reason, never truly believed in Ratten. I think Niall's P-Plate analogy is an apt one. The trouble for the club was that year-on-year improvement meant that actually sacking Ratten was a decidely awkward proposition. But the fact that we will miss the finals in 2012 (despite obvious extenuating circumstances) meant that the club could paint 2012 as a failure and finally provided the club with a basis (however misguided) upon which it could justify a decision to remove Ratten.

I'm on record as saying that I believe that Ratten deserved the opportunity to coach in 2013 and I still believe that he deserved that opportunity. Although I'm not surprised by it, I think his sacking is incredibly harsh in the circumstances, but it's happened now and we need to move forward. One thing is for sure though, now that Ratten is gone, the reaction on talkback radio and from certain posters on this site will be interesting when we lose a few games next season...


Who is your preferred coach next year Blues2005?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:07 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I don’t want to kick a man while he is down, but to me there is no surprise to what happened to Ratts yesterday. Five years to make treacle slow progress and in the end only improve us to mid-table plodders is a FAIL in my eyes. He was unable to provide a coaching performance that produced the required consistent output and levels of improvement needed from a coach afforded five years at the helm.

In fact, it saddens me that we have spend SO long treading water that we may have missed a golden opportunity to achieve genuine success. The contributing factors to this underachievement are numerous but Ratten’s coaching is a significant component – also poor recruiting, sub-standard player development and poor list management to name a few.

Judd’s consistent best is now past him, we are still relying on a number of young recruits to stand up to fill KP roles (although Levi has shown promise) – risky strategy, we have numerous gaps on our list from poor recruiting decisions made in the last few year (2009 OMG :roll: ) that will leave us unable to take the next step in this teams progress. It is just a snapshot really!

However, Brett was unable to coach this team to a level required – the team has never overcome mental fragility and the ability to cope with expectation and pressure. The way we were dismantled by teams earlier in the year was the death knell IMO

I don’t have an opinion on the next coach at this stage because I fear the damage has already been done and we are miles away from a flag anyway. Good luck to whoever it is, it looks like they are in for a big payday. Glad my membership money is making somebody happy!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:38 am 
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Robert Walls

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Hornet wrote:
The Spornstar wrote:

I thought it was a pretty good article actually. It’s certainly something I have sensed as a supporter – a lack of faith in Ratten despite the improvement we saw in our performance. Last year was probably the best example of that.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Niall was saying that despite less success than Ratts, a guy like Hardwick has had more faith instilled in him by Richmond. Where are Richmond’s consistent runs of 4 wins in a row?

There's an un-written rule about giving new coach's 3 years to build a team, especially if they're starting further behind than others.

The tigers will turn feral next year if they don't make finals...


And that was partly the point of the article.

At what point did the board say to Ratten we have enough faith in you to give you 3 years? - The 2 year deals ensured constant speculation about Ratten through his tenure.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:53 am 
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Craig Bradley

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I reckon yesterday could have been a debacle the only reason it wasnt was because of the superb manner in which Ratten conducted himself .Despite what others say with his contribution he is a Carlton legend - I hope he does come back one day and coach Carlton again - hope he gets the PA job and has success

Do support the change but players board and administration need to act in the classy way Brett dealt with his departure - they all let him down in the last 12 months


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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kingkerna wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
I find it strange that a lot of the people sympathising for Ratten had none for Brad Fisher who got the lemonade and sarse stranded on 99 games............Carlton is ruthless ? that wasnt ruthless.It was cruel ,callous and heartless............whoever was responsable for that dog act gets no sympathy from me.

jesus christ, get over it :roll:

EARN


EVERY


GAME!!!

Thats ok as an excuse if.......................... EVERY PLAYER EARNT EVERY GAME...!!!!!

Under the circumstances it was a [REDACTED] up thing to do.....

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Robert Walls

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99prelim wrote:

And deep down, I think Ratts knows it as well. Go and learn under different coaches, go overseas to look at sports clubs, develop himself and maybe a second stint at Carlton is not out of the question in 7-10 years. After all, he's only 41.


Ratten will continue to improve as a coach no doubt. IIRC, he was scheduled to go to harvard in the off season for a management course (one of the main criticisms of him) - hopefully he still does that.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
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kingkerna wrote:

EARN


EVERY


GAME!!!


Fisher did - and then some. He certainly wasnt the worst performed player in his 99th game and should have been retained for game 100.

As much as I've supported Ratten and his tenure at the club, fisher being dropped after game 99 is the one decision that I would really disagreed with during his time as coach.


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