a.k.a "If you don't already feel a bit down about missing the finals" thread.

How about you list the good picks, (I assume you think there have been some), and
list the duds we could've drafted instead.

Let's see ... how 'bout starting with E.Betts?

The most completely useless and pointless thread of the year.

This one.

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Have I run too far to get home?

Weren't we going to pick Trent Knobel but Richmond got him? So we were left with Eddie.

It as also in the preseason draft.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

When Warnock came along Jacobs was re-rookied a 2nd time, so was ok without showing alot and not even on the senior list, Kreuzer was a kid and not that ready and Hampson was an experiment and certainly not doing alot. At that point we needed a ruckman ready to go. Hindisght now says different. Hindsight worked wonders this time didn't it. Wherever you bought that crystal ball tell me so I can get one and see if I'm ever going to win lotto.

Krezuer's been hammered with injury, there's more time to go there before we judge him, like about 8 years. If you didn't want Kreuzer you'd have given the Eagles pick 1 and 3 and kept Kennedy, but I'm sure Kreuzer will be great player for us. How many ruckmen are way better in the 2nd half of their career's as they take long than any other player to develop.

I'm sure nearly every club has the same recruiting stories, we're never going to be on our own there.

What a sh1t thread. Certainly some posters have nothing better to do than just bag everything the club does, just ranting while waving their yellow and black scarf. In their eyes the club can do no right. We seemed to have done well with our rookies. We have a few wrong (Lucas v Talia is one), but we got a few right as well. 2010 draft is looking like we may have done well.

Now you didn't want Judd .

Says it all .

Only Carlton drafts and trades badly .

How about consideration be given to the fact that if the original selection is right the later options are no longer the same:

e.g. if we take Selwood instead of Gibbs maybe we don't have pick 1 the following year (Murphy) or the year after (Kruezer). We could have picked Hansen and Morton (can't be bothered looking up if they were in the relevant drafts but I'm sure you get the drift).

If you don't do the Judd trade we may be first or we may be last, Who knows (not me and not you). It's just speculation.

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"You can't polish a James Hird"

We have recruited badly. Some posters dont want to accept the fact that we have.Its called denial. Our ruck situation is a joke.
Our trades have been ordinary, particularly the Warnock deal.

Some clubs are shit at all this. Look at melbourne
Scully
trengrove
Morton
Watts

Yet clubs like Sydney and Geelong excell.

Our recruiting and trades are one of the reasons we have won one final in 11 seasons.

Posters dont like these threads because the truth hurts.

As I said more hits than misses
Every club has misses.
The key is having more hits.

As a club we have failed.

I can't tell you how many times I've read or heard "pick the best available" and forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't both Gibbs and Kruezer considered "best available" at the time.........and not just by our recruiters. I seem to remember Adelaide going into a big song and dance about father son for Gibbs as he was that highly regarded and who can forget the "Kruezer Cup". When both of these boys were drafted #1 it was no surprise to anyone as they were both considered "best available"

Bad recruiting not just limited to the AFL....

see Moneyball (a good read).

CB

Of course it's hindsight. What's wrong with that? How do you learn unless you are honest about the past?

Its important to keep reviewing the past so we can get better in the future.

What it does show is how important recruiting is and what a fine line it is. A selection either way can make a big difference to a club.

Important that we just keep getting better and better.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

At a conference on a small island in the Mediterranean a couple of years ago. Met another Australian who I had nothing in common with until I mentioned footy. He was a croweater and I told him I was a CFC supporter. Without further ado he got stuck into me for STEALING Gibbs. Father played for Glenelg etc. so should have played for crows under father/son.

They wanted him badly back then. Hindsight is the most used word on this thread.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

Three things the club should learn from its recruiting and trade deals
1 Selection of high draft picks needs to get better

2 We must draft the right kids and be patient.
The Judd deal is a classic case. We were down so long the club wasnt patient enough.

History may still prove me wrong but Juddy is 29 and I cant see him being around in a couple of years because of the way he plays and his personality. I would definitely tell him not to be captain next year as well.

3 How we recruit ruckman. This has been a no brainer disaster.


All you posters mocking captain obvious need to look at what the club has done wrong.

Our arrogance and thirst to be successful and lack of patience is costing us once again.

Keogh the problem with your wide casting statement is that even if Carlton did get these guys, there is no guarantee they would have developed and played this well under Carlton's system.

I maintain that the problem is not who we traded for / drafted, but what we've done with them since they've arrived.

If you look at it, the guys who are playing well consistently are mostly the guys who were at the club before Ratten and his regime were in charge.

The guys who have arrived since have either not been given opportunity, or not been developed to a reasonable point.

You use the Grigg / Collins swap as an example. Wind back the clock buddy. At the time this happened, Carlton fans were happy for Grigg to leave because he was known as a poor trainer, a figjam, etc. Richmond supporters were loathe to lose Collins as they saw him as a kid who was on the way up.

At the time, it appeared as though this was at worst a win/win.

What has happened since is all to do with the development, roles and personnel within each club. Grigg has obviously been developed into a role which has improved him (although I argue he is still a pretty average player who's stats flatter him), and Collins has had an average start, with probably two maybe three solid games.

Ask yourself, is it the fault of the trade or the fault of what happened after they arrived at the club.

I know what answer I'd select.

Was about to write the same thing more or less.
Given the opportunity to grow in the right team environment and even a specific role/position makes a big difference in development.
Injuries has also delayed the development of our younger recruits also.
Kreuzer
Hampson
McIness
Casboult ect ect

We haven't got it right alot but there are other factors that can and do contribute to the development of our players and new recruits and those issues need addressing more in my opinion.
We need to succeed with what we've got more than what we can get.

I dont disagree with you about development once they get to Royal Parade.

So we need a complete review of the club.

Sticks says it will happen. I dontt know.

Why would you give Warnock 3 years this year. People who make these decisions need to be removed.

I went to a Bullants a game at Werribbe a few years ago. Jacobs had played a few senior games and was more
than holding his own for Carlton. Warnock was ordinary in the game I saw yet was promoted at Jacob's expense the following week. I couldnt believe it.

Its those sort of decisions that can rip the heart out of any footy club. Whether Jacobs was going back to SA regardless he was treated like shit at Carlton. Warnock's selection was obvious . The club didnt want to admit to a mistake.

The club has been a shambles for a number of years. Too many negatives outweigh the positives.

Judd had to come. We needed a leader. Someone to at least attempt to wash away the stains of Fev Stevens and Whitnal. He has done that. He may not get a flag but hopefully generations to come will be better for him being through our club. Not a short term fix at all. More a very long term fix. Something that will make our club 5% better than what it would have been for the next 20 years.

Melbourne didnt draft any experienced players. All their top picks have gone to waste. They collected like we did and have not played a single final. Should have taken Ball with the Gysberts pick.

I look at the draft a bit different to most - there are about 60 players drafted each year - a lot of people look at it as they are the only ones that are available and you have to select the right players from that group

there are about 150 plus players that take part in the under 18 competition so not even half of those are taken

We are talking about 17 and 18 year olds who most still have 4-5 years to reach their potential some longer and there is not a select group of 60 there are 1000's that want that chance

So the difference between pick 20 and number 1000 is miles apart but the difference between pick 20 and say 50 is bugger all when you look and the numbers that are available

In most instances it doesn't matter what number that kid is picked at as you know he is in the very top bracket

Its a bit like kids finishing year 12 there are 100's with scores 98.5 + all as good as one another you bring them into the workforce and it is what you do with them then that determines if they are going to be any good or not

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

How many times has Darren Jolly been traded to clubs needing a quick fix? How many flags has he won?

There's no blanket statements when it comes to recruiting. A general philosophy or approach, sure, but times, needs and opportunities change from year to year. It would be foolish to rule out a possible recruit due to some formulated black and white rule...

...unless it's Travis Cloke!

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Is it our recruiting or is it our development?

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With 12 seconds to go in the 1947 Grand Final Fred Stafford snaps a left footed goal. Carlton beat Essendon* by one point..

Number 17 in Carlton's 25 Greatest Moments.

I am not sure if you r right?

My figures have it that out of 55 selections bewteen 2005-2010 - we have had 17 hits.
In respect of the Hawks, they have had 57 selections, and 16 hits.

Keogh, the most simple thing is to point to the recruiters, and, dont worry, I feel your frustration when u look back and see a dud picked before a star. But if you look at all the teams in an "objective" way, you can only come to the undeniable conclusion that all the recruiters make absolute blunders.

For eg.
Sydney picking patrick veszpremi immediately before cyril rioli!!!
Hawks picking the household naem of mitch thorp immediately before joel selwood (imagine the hawks with selwood!!)
Hawks picking xavier ellis ahead of pendlebury or josh kennedy (the hawks really could have been a powerhouse with some better drafting!)

In the end, as scientific as it is getting - it still seems to be a large % of guess work and luck - its a bit like poker - a game of luck dressed up with a bit of skill.

All in all, I find it hard to measure the success of recruiters - i suppose in the end you hope that those supervising internally get a feel for how hard working and knowledgeable people are in the job and make the call on that and the success of the team.