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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
ThePsychologist wrote:
Lots of speculation and opinions on here. Questions quite rightly need to be asked. I believe the club needs a major shake up.

I have been concerned for a long while of the lack of communication between the different departments at the club.

In my opinion we need to get people on the same page and to do that a new coach needs to have a full say over the football department. One person in charge.

This is a cultural issue and this doesn't change by moving one person.

Swann needs to appoint MM. They have a good relationship and they have been through this before.


Head of Football: Currently McKay I like him but he is a Ratten appointment. I have a question mark.

Asst Coaches: Malthouse will bring in own people.

Recruiting: I would leave as is unless MM can get Hine.

Fitness: Time for change.

.


Yep. Thats exactly the route I'd expect the club to take.
Forget doing the hard yards. Get someone high profile in so the responsibility goes off those who should be implementing a comprehensive process.
"it wasnt our fault, Mick bought his own people"

The good old Carlton way, hey?

Hell, we could even get Jack back as vice president!
As a club, we've become a pack of starstruck, reactive followers looking for the soft option.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10477
Blue Vain wrote:
Yep. Thats exactly the weak route I'd expect the club to take.
Forget doing the hard yards. Get someone high profile in so the responsibility goes off those who should be implementing a comprehensive process.
"it wasnt our fault, Mick bought his own people"

The good old Carlton way, hey?

Hell, we could even get Jack back as vice president!


Usually the good old Carlton way was to get premiership coaches who still had it and more often than not delivered. Our history proves we usually make the right call here BV. Pagan aside ofcourse.
I'm not sure Malthouse will deliver, if in fact we do bring him in. I don't think we can afford to bring in a in-experienced coach either though. Our window is open now and don't have time for more on the job errors.


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
Choco Williams....the hungriest coach going around.

we already missed out on ross lyon last year and choco is ready and he would not take shit from any of the palyers and there will be side steps anymore from the gibbs, garletts or yazz of the world....

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10477
azzablue wrote:
Choco Williams....the hungriest coach going around.

we already missed out on ross lyon last year and choco is ready and he would not take shit from any of the palyers and there will be side steps anymore from the gibbs, garletts or yazz of the world....


or Eade :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Yep. Thats exactly the weak route I'd expect the club to take.
Forget doing the hard yards. Get someone high profile in so the responsibility goes off those who should be implementing a comprehensive process.
"it wasnt our fault, Mick bought his own people"

The good old Carlton way, hey?

Hell, we could even get Jack back as vice president!


Usually the good old Carlton way was to get premiership coaches who still had it and more often than not delivered. Our history proves we usually make the right call here BV. Pagan aside ofcourse.
I'm not sure Malthouse will deliver, if in fact we do bring him in. I don't think we can afford to bring in a in-experienced coach either though. Our window is open now and don't have time for more on the job errors.


Remind me Surrey.
Apart from when we rorted the salary cap and draft system, when did that happen?
Good coaches dont win games of football, good players do.
We need to implement a system that produces quality footballers. That requires hand picking the best people to implement the right programs and to manage those programs.
Simply handing the reins over to a recently sacked egomaniac and expecting him to handle it all isnt answering a lot of questions for me.

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:58 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Blue Vain wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
Lots of speculation and opinions on here. Questions quite rightly need to be asked. I believe the club needs a major shake up.

I have been concerned for a long while of the lack of communication between the different departments at the club.

In my opinion we need to get people on the same page and to do that a new coach needs to have a full say over the football department. One person in charge.

This is a cultural issue and this doesn't change by moving one person.

Swann needs to appoint MM. They have a good relationship and they have been through this before.


Head of Football: Currently McKay I like him but he is a Ratten appointment. I have a question mark.

Asst Coaches: Malthouse will bring in own people.

Recruiting: I would leave as is unless MM can get Hine.

Fitness: Time for change.

.


Yep. Thats exactly the route I'd expect the club to take.
Forget doing the hard yards. Get someone high profile in so the responsibility goes off those who should be implementing a comprehensive process.
"it wasnt our fault, Mick bought his own people"

The good old Carlton way, hey?

Hell, we could even get Jack back as vice president!
As a club, we've become a pack of starstruck, reactive followers looking for the soft option.


Soft option?

I personally like the theory that was used by Pratt and a number of SUCCESSFUL businessman and that is get the BEST.

Stuff everyone else, what they do, whatever. GET THE BEST.

The coaching position is the MOST IMPORTANT in any football club.

Who is the best coach? Based on Premierships its Arguably Malthouse, Roos, Matthews or Thompson.

The other three wont take the job, so its Malthouse. Simple.

We are not appointing a CFO or a Marketing Manager. We need the BEST coach and the field is thin.

To make the appointment, give him three years at good money and carte blanche regarding the football department is a strong and decisive decision. Shows guts and a that what has been happening isnt good enough.

If you want "weak" how about reappointing Ratten because "he was there" or giving him the job originally after Voss knocked it back and McKenna and Bond were given one interview.

IMO that is weak and the people in charge at the time should be held responsible.

Ratten also has other issues. He doesn't speak much with Swann, Cordy or Rogers. Icke left because of him as did Hyde. All good people, what happened? Even Sticks is on shaky ground with Ratten. Their relationship is not the same.

Malthouse whether you like him or not has gone to clubs, made the hard decisions, started at low bases and had success.

I cannot see how appointing him is "weak".

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
So, if he's the best, why isn't he coaching? :?

Have a listen to him in the media. It's all about him. I'm surprised he has'nt taken the rap for JFKs assassination to gain some extra relevance. Look at his bizzare behaviour last year leading up to the finals. Going on the footy show to put himself at the forefront. It was all about Mick!
He preaches team, team,team to his players but he cant handle not being the centre of attention himself.
Its funny. You say he's the best but why? I talk to several of his previous assistant coaches and most tell me he's a self absorbed fruit cake.
What do you know that they don't?

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 am
Posts: 356
No one knows if Malthouse if the best coach available. It's a guess based on a superficial assessment of his past achievements and a lack of knowledge of the untried options out there. I certainly don't want him given free reign to pick and choose the staff in the football department. That won't give you the best people. It will just give you the people that Malthouse likes working with.


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:13 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Blue Vain wrote:
So, if he's the best, why isn't he coaching? :?

Have a listen to him in the media. It's all about him. I'm surprised he has'nt taken the rap for JFKs assassination to gain some extra relevance. Look at his bizzare behaviour last year leading up to the finals. Going on the footy show to put himself at the forefront. It was all about Mick!
He preaches team, team,team to his players but he cant handle not being the centre of attention himself.
Its funny. You say he's the best but why? I talk to several of his previous assistant coaches and most tell me he's a self absorbed fruit cake.
What do you know that they don't?


He isn't coaching because McGuire is in love with Bucks. Most Collingwood people wish he was still there.

Most successful people rub a lot of people the wrong way.

He is self absorbed, he is driven, he doesn't tolerate fools, he is arrogant, HE IS WHAT WE NEED.

If you want to be successful you sometimes need to be honest and critical of people and a lot don't like it.


PS The JFK reference :roll: is one step from Godwin!

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Last edited by ThePsychologist on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:14 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
in8 wrote:
No one knows if Malthouse if the best coach available. It's a guess based on a superficial assessment of his past achievements and a lack of knowledge of the untried options out there. I certainly don't want him given free reign to pick and choose the staff in the football department. That won't give you the best people. It will just give you the people that Malthouse likes working with.


So do you want people who Malthouse doesnt like or want to work with or who he trusts and is comfortable with?

Worked so well with Ratten hasnt it?

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24612
Location: Kaloyasena
SurreyBlue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Yep. Thats exactly the weak route I'd expect the club to take.
Forget doing the hard yards. Get someone high profile in so the responsibility goes off those who should be implementing a comprehensive process.
"it wasnt our fault, Mick bought his own people"

The good old Carlton way, hey?

Hell, we could even get Jack back as vice president!


Usually the good old Carlton way was to get premiership coaches who still had it and more often than not delivered. Our history proves we usually make the right call here BV. Pagan aside ofcourse.
I'm not sure Malthouse will deliver, if in fact we do bring him in. I don't think we can afford to bring in a in-experienced coach either though. Our window is open now and don't have time for more on the job errors.



Image


Which one???

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 8628
I really hope we dont get MM

I believe he is an egotistical, supercilious Collingwood cauliflower

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am
Posts: 1730
Blue Vain wrote:
So, if he's the best, why isn't he coaching? :?

Have a listen to him in the media. It's all about him. I'm surprised he has'nt taken the rap for JFKs assassination to gain some extra relevance. Look at his bizzare behaviour last year leading up to the finals. Going on the footy show to put himself at the forefront. It was all about Mick!
He preaches team, team,team to his players but he cant handle not being the centre of attention himself.
Its funny. You say he's the best but why? I talk to several of his previous assistant coaches and most tell me he's a self absorbed fruit cake.
What do you know that they don't?


Hopefully our board members have spoken to his previous assistant coaches as well!!


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
ThePsychologist wrote:

If you want to be successful you sometimes need to be honest and critical of people and a lot don't like it.



See, that's the irony. Malthouse wont accept honesty or criticism of his own role. At Collingwood, he refused to be a part of any review of the senior coaching role.
It was Ok to review everyone else but himself.
Why do you think that was the case?

Watch him in the coaches box. He was going off his head a couple of seasons ago and an assistant coach told him to re-focus. He sacked him.
Since then, there is a rule in the coaches box that no-one is allowed to look at Mick when he's going off his head. Does that sound like the behaviour of a logical person?

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:33 am
Posts: 41
Just disgusted with last nights performance, inexcusable inconsistency from this team and that's the coach's fault. Sorry but you can't pick and choose when you want to play this game and we've been picking and choosing for the last 3 seasons.

Malthouse may not be the best option tactically in 2013 but what he has brought to every single team he has coached is the turn up to play, turn up to win mentality every single week no matter what approach...

I have marveled at his ability to turn average footballers into players, toovey, Blair types who are average have blossomed under his tutelage...which players who are average have blossomed under ratten...JR, Davies, Joseph, white, etc are worse players now then when they arrived.

Unfortunately no matter how many times we beat collingwood this year...losing to the second worst team in the comp with half their team out with finals on the line is the single worst playing and coaching performance in the last 20 years by any team anywhere and ratten needs to fall on his sword for the sake of the club and the club needs to bring in malthouse to rattle the cages of these girls who prance around more interested in twitter and Facebook than playing footy every week to AF intensity and standard....the can't be [REDACTED] this week but can next week mentality needs to be belted out of this group and mick malthouse is proven in this aspect of the coaching game..

Never have I been ashamed or embarrassed to be a social club member of the most successful club in football history...not between 02-07 never....today I am ashamed and embarrassed and I have nothing!

Time for change!


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Blue Vain wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:

If you want to be successful you sometimes need to be honest and critical of people and a lot don't like it.



See, that's the irony. Malthouse wont accept honesty or criticism of his own role. At Collingwood, he refused to be a part of any review of the senior coaching role.
It was Ok to review everyone else but himself.
Why do you think that was the case?

Watch him in the coaches box. He was going off his head a couple of seasons ago and an assistant coach told him to re-focus. He sacked him.
Since then, there is a rule in the coaches box that no-one is allowed to look at Mick when he's going off his head. Does that sound like the behaviour of a logical person?


Jesus Christ :sad:


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:35 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Mars wrote:
Just disgusted with last nights performance, inexcusable inconsistency from this team and that's the coach's fault. Sorry but you can't pick and choose when you want to play this game and we've been picking and choosing for the last 3 seasons.

Malthouse may not be the best option tactically in 2013 but what he has brought to every single team he has coached is the turn up to play, turn up to win mentality every single week no matter what approach...

I have marveled at his ability to turn average footballers into players, toovey, Blair types who are average have blossomed under his tutelage...which players who are average have blossomed under ratten...JR, Davies, Joseph, white, etc are worse players now then when they arrived.

Unfortunately no matter how many times we beat collingwood this year...losing to the second worst team in the comp with half their team out with finals on the line is the single worst playing and coaching performance in the last 20 years by any team anywhere and ratten needs to fall on his sword for the sake of the club and the club needs to bring in malthouse to rattle the cages of these girls who prance around more interested in twitter and Facebook than playing footy every week to AF intensity and standard....the can't be !@#$%& this week but can next week mentality needs to be belted out of this group and mick malthouse is proven in this aspect of the coaching game..

Never have I been ashamed or embarrassed to be a social club member of the most successful club in football history...not between 02-07 never....today I am ashamed and embarrassed and I have nothing!

Time for change!


Well said :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
Mars wrote:

Malthouse may not be the best option tactically in 2013 but what he has brought to every single team he has coached is the turn up to play, turn up to win mentality every single week no matter what approach...


How did we beat them by 50 odd points a couple of years ago if that's the case?
And how did Geelong beat them by 96 points last year?

Sorry Mars but statements like that are just factually wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:33 am
Posts: 41
Blue Vain wrote:
Mars wrote:

Malthouse may not be the best option tactically in 2013 but what he has brought to every single team he has coached is the turn up to play, turn up to win mentality every single week no matter what approach...


How did we beat them by 50 odd points a couple of years ago if that's the case?
And how did Geelong beat them by 96 points last year?

Sorry Mars but statements like that are just factually wrong.


You found 2 games in how many years? Well done...I can name 100 more where they've won! I can name half a dozen games this year where Carlton hasn't turned up to play and lost to what on paper are inferior teams, 2 of those port Adelaide and the gold coast are 2 of the worst teams in paper in living memory! That's just one year...inexcusable..

The facts are the facts from 06 onwards the pies were In and around the top 4 every year, until 09 they were nowhere near the most talented sides in the comp but they were always around the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: What now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
Sorry, I thought you were being literal.
So when you said they always" turn up to play every single week, no matter what". You mean only on the weeks they didn't get flogged.

Yes. Malthouse may be a good coach in your eyes but he's had his share of disappionting losses too. Ratten isnt Robinson Crusoe.

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