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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I think there were (and are) aspects of our club that were not conducive to good on-field performance. It appears to me that the club has sought to address them over the last 5 years and we are making progress. The recruiting manger demoted and replaced with someone who appears to be well respected , the footy manager gone and replaced by a guy who, even to the perpetual complainers on this site, is considered a professional. He will be learning on the job a bit, however I have been impressed with his performance, particularly during the Judd/Addams case.

In the coach's box problems have are also being addressed. More experienced assistants brought in to buttress Ratt's position and work towards a more professional system.

Your description as Ratt's serving an apprenticeship is apt , unfortunately he didn't have any tools nor did he have a master/mentor to learn from. There was (and is) also plenty of talk on here that he has, at different times, not had the support of the recruiting group, the footy manager or the board. This is hardly an environment conducive to good coaching. It's not so much Thompson/Geelong it's far closer to Knights/Bombers.

I don't know if he's the guy to make it all ok, but I believe overall the club is improving. We stumble every now and again but compared to a few short years ago we have improved and I believe Ratt's has improved as well. I don't know if this means Ratt's or Sticks should lead us forward and there's always alternatives, but they may not be available and they may not be better.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Or ... incorporate a structure to get our kids more AFL playing time? Streamline our development process -- which, i'm pretty sure has nothing to do with ratten or replacing ratten -- and build a 30-deep list.

How do hawthorn, geelong and collingwood integrate their youth into their starting side and still keep on winning?

Maybe instead of having the old "we're carlton" mindset, it's time to look externally at other successful clubs and learn something?

From my recollection of the preseason, a top four finish was projected due to the continued improvement/ break out years for Gibbs, Murphy, Yarran, Kreuzer, Laidler and the rest of our 23-24 year old 'core'.

I'm guessing Ratten also thought for the 1st time since he started as coach, he had a pretty handy starting 22. But he definitely got it all wrong beyond the 22.

I'm fairly confident Ratten would be the first to admit he got that wrong.

Most informed people will tell you that you need a handy 28 and not a handy 22 to be making such predictions.

Yeah, which is why I said the whole bit about Ratten being the first to admit he probably got that part wrong.

... Interesting on tv last night, Dermot B was wondering where Carlton's tagline's and marketing come from?

ie We are Carlton, Here we Come, I am Blue etc ... He wondered if that was tied in with Ratten (possibly being made to say?) we will finish 4th to create interest, memberships and expectation.

DB felt it's not ratten's style to make statements before he's delivered on them ... wondered if he was pushed into saying it.

Because we think we are better than we are and don't have the vision to see that not everything is done yet. I'm mean, really, it's a fine line and getting to fourth position on the ladder and winning a premiership are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

Whether Ratts is part of the problem or answer is beside the point.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Sure you didn't.

Have you noticed that you tend to fabricate things when you're trying to argue a point? 'Not one football person tipped us to beat Richmond, Essendon*'... 'no other coach has failed to make the finals on defending a premiership' 'couldn't read any further'...

Braithy, it's only a fan forum. You don't have to resort to making shit up to win arguments. Or maybe you do.

Yeah well ... like I said, I won't refer to wiki or go strictly by memory to recall a point.

It's an easy solution, for me.

For you though ... you still can't trumpet a suitable replacement for ratten and detail while they'll be successful or what timeframe you expect them to be successful in.

And you guys are critical of ratts being a downhill skier ... pot, meet kettle.

Rubbish!

They have no-one as good as Eddy Betts for a start.....

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

Richmond in 70, Carlton in 71. Wow, we've found 5 in 40 years just off the top of our head. Good research there.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

A decade??!! Mate, a flower century!! Carlton will never be the same again!

Poor lidwe Carlton. Couldn't participate in the first 2 rounds of 2002 draft. When was that?? When Levi Casboult was 9 years old or something.

We still managed to get Simpson and Fisher - two essentially 100 game players (alright, 2 99 game players).
We still got Walker (PICK 2) in 2003.
And then got top 10 picks in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 - including THREE number 1s PLUS Judd!
And then got lucky getting a top 10 (Robinson) at number 40!!

And Pratt and Mathieson threw over $900K into the club.

So, the fines and sanctions were offset YEARS ago. If you're seriously using something that happened a decade ago, and that has clearly been offset heaps since then, then I can only assume that .......... fades out into [size=50]the distance.[/size]

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

Anyone else noticed that Braithy joined around the same time that j.scarponi disappeared....

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"They're [REDACTED]'

but you forgot the biggest kick in the guts of all- Denis Pagan

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Couldn't be could it?

I'm losin' it if it is -- I tend to more or less agree with Braithy, but not much with J.s.

Go Moshe, Go Moshe

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

umm. I did say AFL. Not VFL. But lets not let that get in the way of anything.

Besides, the essence of my point, I stand behind. Look outside of the dodgy wiki research, and look at what I said.

How many people here would've been calling for Clarkson's head after a 9th and 11th finish right after a premiership? Despite a horrendous injury list.

Now in 2012, they've done two things. They learned they needed to develop a 30-deep list to win a flag to cover all injury bases. They recruited smartly to boost up their deficiencies -- Gunston is bought in to cover Roughhead incase his achilles slowed him down further.

... and there they are on the cusp of a deep september run.

I wonder if we had the same patience to keep everything together while it's showing improvement, what we could achieve?

But are you J Scarponi??????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Haha ... Nice.

Some other clever person in another thread drew the attention of the other clubs with high draft picks in the 2000's ... Melbourne, Essendon*, North etc ... I bet they'd love to have won an elim final and lost a semi by less than a kick.

Sure we're not a grand final threat, but everything is relative.

Aren't we also still in a tubload of debt?



Ok. So Hawthorn, Collingwood and Geelong are pretty much the yardstick the rest of the AFL measure themselves by. They have the ideal you need a 30-deep list to win a flag over a home and away season to get top 4, and then to have a deep september run.

You just named about 8 quality players and Brad freaking Fisher. We're still a fair way short.

I figure your problems about CFC's hole we were in might centre around Brad Fisher being Flag winning quality.

Next you'll tell me the absence of Brett Thornton and his club worst gps numbers are the reason why we're not top 4.

lol. I was reading the TC boards a long time before I joined. JS had some far out ideas. I'd like to think since I write for a living, the difference in writing styles would scream that me and JS are not one of the same.

... but then again, there's people here questioning why we never won a grand final when we had the mercurial Brad Fisher on our list.

So I won't question anything here ever again.