Heh ... as long as they get the most important one wrong, all is well with the universe.

Maybe not as badly as we did, but some not far off it.

Hawthorn finished 15th with 4 wins in 2004, sacked Schwab, and were literally in crisis. 4 years later they won a flag.

Collingwood were hugely in debt and had won a wooden spoon in 1999. Granted McGuire has been the drive behind their rise to power, but Malthouse managed to get a wooden spoon team into 2 grand finals shortly after. (What McGuire achieved with Collingwood puts our Board to shame. But that's a discussion for another thread.)

WC lost Judd and Cousins, had huge cultural issues, and won a spoon. Now they are a genuine top 4 contender. Imagine what would happen if Judd and Murphy went elsewhere.

St K is interesting. They decided on the back of consecutive Prelim finals that Thomas couldn't get them to a flag. It was probably their best window in terms of pure talent. Lyon then came in and took a good but not brilliant team to within a bee's dick of back to back premierships. Bear in mind of course that St K have been a perennial basket case. They finished bottom in 2000, 15th in 2001 and 15th in 2002. Within 2 years, they played a prelim (lost by 6 points) another prelim the next year, and 2 grand finals a few years after that.

Each of those teams were down the bottom, with serious challenges, and managed to come up pretty quickly, in some cases with ultimate success. We're still wallowing.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Who are these other clubs you speak of? We're Carlton, %#@$ the rest!

Interesting sn't it

Both Lyon and Worsfold were assistants to Parkin, if I recall correctly..Hmmmm

More evidence for Ratten and Parkins endorsement of him

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Go BLues

Are we still waiting for the alternatives to rotten or have I missed something

Not scoffing in the slightest. Admiring

No they aren't. They will probably finish the H&A season 1 win ahead of us. Sakc Woosh?

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when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

Feelgood Hit of the Winter - GHRP-2, GHRP-6, CJC-1295, AOD-9604, Humanofort and Hexarelin

Perhaps the most improved coach since round 10, but not for the season. If he was coaching like he is now in the first half of the season we wouldn't be relying on Richmond-like permutations to make the finals. He went backwards before picking up the pace.

imo, It's another massive expectation -- read; unreal expectation -- to think Ratten will get served a plethora of injuries to key positional and midfield players and come up with answers, structures and a tailored gameplan to the personnel available, overnight.

It took ratten weeks to adjust where it might take some coaches a season or not at all.

I'd love to see a stat of previous seasons, where teams had a similar injury count to key personnel and see where they ended up on the ladder.

I remember Clarkson in 09 didn't even make the 8 with a defending premiership list after injuries derailed him and the hawk's season. The first time in AFL history a team didn't even make the finals to defend its crown.

Yet ... here at TC there are guys championing Clarkson as far superior to Ratten. Interesting.

Other coaches wouldnt be as Ratt shit as what happened to us this year

And yes you are correct ... Ratts is a better coach than Clarkson...

You know what youre missing about Clarkson not defending his flag in finals ???.... he won the flag....thats what....!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Hawthorn's list whether we like it or not, is superior to ours.

Their best 30 players > our best 30

So do we find someone who can get more out of our list or turn it over?....

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

What??

Of course it's a massive expectation to do that AFTER injuries hit.

The expectation is that a senior coach has already done that BEFORE injuries hit.

A senior coach who knows what he's doing has his team drilled and structured so the players are performing roles. So if one goes down, another can come up to play that role. Most likely not as effectively, but it certainly won't leave a gaping hole in the team.

Ratten's Carlton relies almost solely on key individuals standing up. "Kick it to the champ" (that's straight from Ratt's mouth).

When Carrots went down, we had no-one able to fill in, because we only had one Carrots. The squad wasn't drilled well enough for others to fill in and play a role, as they can do at say Collingwood.

Ratten was exposed this year. Injuries to key players, rather than be used as an excuse for the catastrophic way the team collapsed, should be seen for what they were: they shone a light on the fact that Ratten's built a Carlton side that is almost totally reliant on key players standing up.

Look, give the guy 3 more years and he'll probably have that side of coaching nailed by then. I'm just not sure why he should be serving his coaching apprenticeship as our senior coach. It's really quite damning.

Collingwood in 91, Essendon* in 94, Adelaide in 99.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

First time, fourth time. SANFL, EDFL... what's the difference?

I think the poi nt hes tryi ng to make is Ratts is a better coach than Maathews Sheedy and Blight as well as Clarkson.... just his argument is abit historically flawed...

and those guys won flags.... Ratts has one eliminational final win in 5 years... and a home final.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Sorry. couldn't read any further.

Before injuries hit, our list went about 17 deep. It's been our achilles ever since Parkin left. No depth. Forever our bottom 4 or 5 players is almost always worse than whichever team we're playing's bottom 4 or 5.

Hawthorn started the whole notion you need 30 players to develop on your list. And it's a concept we haven't been able to execute. We're showing signs with some of our kids, that next year we'll be approaching a 30-deep list.

To hang ratten up for a club-wide issue which started 5-6 years before he took the job, is pretty typical of the Ratten witch hunters here.

Maybe I'm reading the wrong threads John ... but why don't you throw a few names out there to succeed where Ratten has failed and take CFC to a premiership.

Also explain how long you are willing to give the incumbent in order to reach this goal?

I'm guessing like Synners, you will selectively avoid this part of my post and fail miserably -- like Synners --to come up with anything constructive.

Last time I'll lazily use wikipedia as my sole source of research.

My bad.


Still, it's a fair point. I wonder how many here would've been calling for Clarkson's head after he finished 9th than 11th after a grand final win?

Both seasons ravaged with injuries. Which prompted Clarkson to adopt a 30-deep list which Geelong & Collingwood are now implementing as well.

But apparently, that injuries are no excuse at Carlton football club.

Wrong on so many levels.

When was 5 years a long time? Certainly not since the VFL became the AFL. The sanctions & fines placed against us, set us back a decade.

The sense of entitlement on this board breaks my brain.

I stopped reading here....if that's the case (and I don't believe it is) why were we so adamant of a top four finish and a crack at a flag?

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre