No Praise for Ratts! (split topic)

BigKev · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:25 am

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (doesn't seem bother anyone else), Ratten deserves to be retained based solely on his win/loss record for the period of his tenure, (regardless of what happens for the rest of this year). Any other consideration is guesswork.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the reality is that in the modern era teams don't go from basket cases to premiers quickly.

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:28 am

Sydney Blue wrote:

Synbad wrote:

cimm???

Whos david king coach????

not sure .......

another thing about Walls and PArkin who are their apprentices who played and coached under them and went out and became rock and roll stars of coaching????

and glad you agree on Walls and Parkin......

.... cos it was becoming ridiculous there for a moment.. having these two (as much as i loved walls) opinion.... become the end game on Ratts as coach.

Ross Lyon ????- Worsfold ???? Roos played under both coaches ??? Mathews under Parkin
Vossy under Walls - fair chance the Scott brothers both played under Walls
and of course there is Ratten - that 7 of the current day coaches that have served time under them
and there is a stack of assistant coaches such as Lappin, Dean , Silvangi etc etc
But of course they had no influence on them at all they all learnt how to coach under others Walls and Parkin taught them nothing . Pfft 4 time premiership coach WTF would he know

But Malthouse theres a coach :lol:

Hold it!
Worsfold and Lyon... hmmmmmm
They played under Parkin?
And as for coach i am pretty sure it was Brittain and later Pagan for Lyon.

And Mathews would say Jeans was his mentor... i doubt hed say Parkin... might be wrong.... :grin:

AGRO · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:33 am

kennyhunter wrote:

CK95 wrote:

I can still recall the time on 774 Parko suggested we trade our Walker pick for Nathan Brown :lol:

Oh gawd, I remember that one too :

People likeParko and Walls rely on what other people tell them when talking about footy tactics today.
Love Parko's passion, his flags but not how he left the list.

Recent wins have given him the ammunition to go into bat for his boy.
And of course the media is getting on board cos it's a great yarn if the Blues are winning again and they STILL want to get rid of their coach.

Even Parkin admits he got it wrong with respect to his theory on recruiting - he left our list in an awful mess, with his theory on drafting mature bodied, more senior players from the WAFL and SANFL whilst ignoring Under 18 Talent from the TAC Cup.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:00 pm

Synbad wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

Synbad wrote:

cimm???

Whos david king coach????

not sure .......

another thing about Walls and PArkin who are their apprentices who played and coached under them and went out and became rock and roll stars of coaching????

and glad you agree on Walls and Parkin......

.... cos it was becoming ridiculous there for a moment.. having these two (as much as i loved walls) opinion.... become the end game on Ratts as coach.

Ross Lyon ????- Worsfold ???? Roos played under both coaches ??? Mathews under Parkin
Vossy under Walls - fair chance the Scott brothers both played under Walls
and of course there is Ratten - that 7 of the current day coaches that have served time under them
and there is a stack of assistant coaches such as Lappin, Dean , Silvangi etc etc
But of course they had no influence on them at all they all learnt how to coach under others Walls and Parkin taught them nothing . Pfft 4 time premiership coach WTF would he know

But Malthouse theres a coach :lol:

Hold it!
Worsfold and Lyon... hmmmmmm
They played under Parkin?
And as for coach i am pretty sure it was Brittain and later Pagan for Lyon.

And Mathews would say Jeans was his mentor... i doubt hed say Parkin... might be wrong.... :grin:

Worsfold and Lyon both were apprentice coaches under Parkin

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7205

BigKev wrote:

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the reality is that in the modern era teams don't go from basket cases to premiers quickly.

eggsactly. Modern post national AFL draft footy is more of a slow crawl to the top, not a sprint. Not sure why some here don't get that?

The same few also seem to think that Malthouse is offering us the sprint to the top option, when in fact there are no guarantees he'd come in here do anything like that.

There is risk associated with hiring Malthouse. There is risk associated with keeping Ratten on and have his improvement stall or bottom out. But! Based on his season so far, Ratten's done nothing to warrant sacking and deserves to coach out his contract.

Using Geelong as a template, they've had Hawkins in their system for 6 years. When was the last time here, anyone had that kind of patience for a kid? Hawkins -- health permitting -- will be the next superstar of the game. Yet here we are with a steadily improving coach, who could well be the most improved coach in the entire comp and people complain that 5 years is too long. Madness.

Modern footy is all about building and patience. There are no quick fixes like there were when CFC dominated the league.

kennyhunter · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm **Posts:** 2432

AGRO wrote:

kennyhunter wrote:

CK95 wrote:

I can still recall the time on 774 Parko suggested we trade our Walker pick for Nathan Brown :lol:

Oh gawd, I remember that one too :

People likeParko and Walls rely on what other people tell them when talking about footy tactics today.
Love Parko's passion, his flags but not how he left the list.

Recent wins have given him the ammunition to go into bat for his boy.
And of course the media is getting on board cos it's a great yarn if the Blues are winning again and they STILL want to get rid of their coach.

Even Parkin admits he got it wrong with respect to his theory on recruiting - he left our list in an awful mess, with his theory on drafting mature bodied, more senior players from the WAFL and SANFL whilst ignoring Under 18 Talent from the TAC Cup.

Yeah, you are right. He admitted his mistakes ... & plenty of others on Fox Footy recently.

I do enjoy his frankness in a sea if bland commentators.

Dunno if I can forgive him for O'Reilly just yet tho :yikes:

Pafloyul · **Joined:** Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm **Posts:** 4842

Braithy wrote:

BigKev wrote:

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the reality is that in the modern era teams don't go from basket cases to premiers quickly.

eggsactly. Modern post national AFL draft footy is more of a slow crawl to the top, not a sprint. Not sure why some here don't get that?

The same few also seem to think that Malthouse is offering us the sprint to the top option, when in fact there are no guarantees he'd come in here do anything like that.

There is risk associated with hiring Malthouse. There is risk associated with keeping Ratten on and have his improvement stall or bottom out. But! Based on his season so far, Ratten's done nothing to warrant sacking and deserves to coach out his contract.

Using Geelong as a template, they've had Hawkins in their system for 6 years. When was the last time here, anyone had that kind of patience for a kid? Hawkins -- health permitting -- will be the next superstar of the game. Yet here we are with a steadily improving coach, who could well be the most improved coach in the entire comp and people complain that 5 years is too long. Madness.

Modern footy is all about building and patience. There are no quick fixes like there were when CFC dominated the league.

Yet the 'quick fix' mentality is still ingrained in Carlton, even if it has taken on a more subtle turn. We don't want to run the risk of making it a self-fulfilling theory in which it takes Carlton a little longer than other clubs. An "I told you so" could cut a little too close to the bone.

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:06 pm

slow crawl up.......???

whats a slow crawl up?

1 elimination win in 11 years???

It works like this... good clubs get up there and mount serious challenged average sides dont...

kingkerna · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:11 pm

now Ratten has been coaching for 11 years?

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

Braithy wrote:

BigKev wrote:

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the reality is that in the modern era teams don't go from basket cases to premiers quickly.

eggsactly. Modern post national AFL draft footy is more of a slow crawl to the top, not a sprint. Not sure why some here don't get that?

The same few also seem to think that Malthouse is offering us the sprint to the top option, when in fact there are no guarantees he'd come in here do anything like that.

There is risk associated with hiring Malthouse. There is risk associated with keeping Ratten on and have his improvement stall or bottom out. But! Based on his season so far, Ratten's done nothing to warrant sacking and deserves to coach out his contract.

Using Geelong as a template, they've had Hawkins in their system for 6 years. When was the last time here, anyone had that kind of patience for a kid? Hawkins -- health permitting -- will be the next superstar of the game. Yet here we are with a steadily improving coach, who could well be the most improved coach in the entire comp and people complain that 5 years is too long. Madness.

Modern footy is all about building and patience. There are no quick fixes like there were when CFC dominated the league.

Excellent posts. People have a misplaced sense of entitlement which causes them to think that because we dominated the game once (in a different era under a different set of rules and parameters), we should automatically be up there every year in today's footy.

If you look at the record, Carlton improved EVERY YEAR under Ratten from 2008-2011 inclusive, i.e. the gradual build was in full effect. It looked like continuing after our start to 2012 before injury decimated the list and any realistic chance we had of challenging for the premiership. Something totally out of Ratten's control. So it stands to reason that Ratten should be able to continue his good work in 2013.

Mark J · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:45 pm

It would be nice if all those bagging Ratts, Parko, Walls could at least throw up an alternative! :idea:

At least the pro Ratts folks are sticking to their guns.

i'm sure it will be ...

Mr Best Available
or
Mr Been Throught the Process

or something like that.

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:47 pm

Mark J wrote:

It would be nice if all those bagging Ratts, Parko, Walls could at least throw up an alternative! :idea:

At least the pro Ratts folks are sticking to their guns.

i'm sure it will be ...

Mr Best Available
or
Mr Been Throught the Process

or something like that.

This is a Ratts stinks thread.. dont hijack it... please get back to your very energetic. and high traffic .. praise ratts thread... and discuss among yourselves.... :lol:

my two cents · **Joined:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:28 pm **Posts:** 572

BigKev wrote:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (doesn't seem bother anyone else), Ratten deserves to be retained based solely on his win/loss record for the period of his tenure, (regardless of what happens for the rest of this year). Any other consideration is guesswork.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the reality is that in the modern era teams don't go from basket cases to premiers quickly.

You may want to check the full details of Ratten's win/loss record for the period below rather than the convenient comparison provided by Walls.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_ ... pe=&sort=p

Ratten's overall win % is behind that of Ayres, Chris Connolly, Grant Thomas, & Jeff Gieschen :lol:

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

Mark J wrote:

It would be nice if all those bagging Ratts, Parko, Walls could at least throw up an alternative! :idea:

At least the pro Ratts folks are sticking to their guns.

i'm sure it will be ...

Mr Best Available
or
Mr Been Throught the Process

or something like that.

Bottom line Mark, is that if we lose to St Kilda it again shows Ratts isn't up to coaching against good sides.

There is no excuse for us not winning the next two games, none.

If we make finals I would expect us to win the first also.

Mark J · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:22 pm

Synbad wrote:

Mark J wrote:

It would be nice if all those bagging Ratts, Parko, Walls could at least throw up an alternative! :idea:

At least the pro Ratts folks are sticking to their guns.

i'm sure it will be ...

Mr Best Available
or
Mr Been Throught the Process

or something like that.

This is a Ratts stinks thread.. dont hijack it... please get back to your very energetic. and high traffic .. praise ratts thread... and discuss among yourselves.... :lol:

Fair enough

who's your alternative to Stinky Ratts? :razz:

my two cents · **Joined:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:28 pm **Posts:** 572

cimm1979 wrote:

I agree with Synners about Parko and Walls. When it comes to the modern game they're just moderately informed spectators. Their views on player/coach/club relationships are probably still valid, but that would be about all.

David King would appear to have a handle on the modern game.

What's his view?

Not very complimentary
A bit similar to BV's info that he understands the game but lacks other skills
Check pg 5, Aug 15 post

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31867&start=80

Synbad · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:28 pm

Its not my job to go shake coaches trees.
Stinky Sticks and the board and CEO have a duty to get us the best guy possible.

Over the five plus years with Ratts they have failed this.,,more faith in Ratts means they continue to fail the club.

Cos Ratts is not the best coach we could have had over the last 5 to 6 years....

impossible..!!!

Agree???

Or not???

Cos most people have no clue if he can coach or not...

i mean they do.... theyre just looking for signs he might be ok... not that he is great!!!

baz_baz · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 11:44 am **Posts:** 2000

Synbad wrote:

Its not my job to go shake coaches trees.
Stinky Sticks and the board and CEO have a duty to get us the best guy possible.

Over the five plus years with Ratts they have failed this.,,more faith in Ratts means they continue to fail the club.

Cos Ratts is not the best coach we could have had over the last 5 to 6 years....

impossible..!!!

Agree???

Or not???

Cos most people have no clue if he can coach or not...

i mean they do.... theyre just looking for signs he might be ok... not that he is great!!!

Parkin certainly knows who can coach and what attributes that good coaches have.

He endorses Ratten unequivically.

So who do you think people are going to listen to?

Him??

or YOU :lol:

JohnM · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:07 pm

baz_baz wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Its not my job to go shake coaches trees.
Stinky Sticks and the board and CEO have a duty to get us the best guy possible.

Over the five plus years with Ratts they have failed this.,,more faith in Ratts means they continue to fail the club.

Cos Ratts is not the best coach we could have had over the last 5 to 6 years....

impossible..!!!

Agree???

Or not???

Cos most people have no clue if he can coach or not...

i mean they do.... theyre just looking for signs he might be ok... not that he is great!!!

Parkin certainly knows who can coach and what attributes that good coaches have.

He endorses Ratten unequivically.

So who do you think people are going to listen to?

Him??

or YOU :lol:

Yeah, they listened to Parko last time and appointed Brittain on his strong recommendation. Not sure if they're hanging off his every word nowadays.

Parko likes recommending people he's mentored. Most people do. Its human nature. But only people a few cards short of a deck actually take those recommendations at face value, as you seem to be suggesting the club does.

Juddy&theKruezers · **Joined:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm **Posts:** 4426

Synbad wrote:

Mark J wrote:

It would be nice if all those bagging Ratts, Parko, Walls could at least throw up an alternative! :idea:

At least the pro Ratts folks are sticking to their guns.

i'm sure it will be ...

Mr Best Available
or
Mr Been Throught the Process

or something like that.

This is a Ratts stinks thread.. dont hijack it... please get back to your very energetic. and high traffic .. praise ratts thread... and discuss among yourselves.... :lol:

No Praise for Ratts! (split topic)

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