Actually, that list is a bit damning on Ratten.

Within 5 years, Matthews had a premiership. Sheedy had two premierships. Parkin won a flag in his second season. Malthouse had a Prelim in his second year at Footscray. Williams had Port Adelaide finish 1st in the H&A season 3 times (and won the flag in his sixth season).


It's actually a great list to show how ordinary Ratts has been really.

Sad thing about this thread is Synbad and his followers have spent hours / days/ weeks on this thread and the old MM thread. When Ratts is coaching next year, it is all for nothing.

Keep on posting guys and wasting your time on something that's not going to happen. 6 - 7 weeks ago, it was touch and go for Ratts coaching next year, but not anymore. How can you seriously sack a coach that will win 12-13 wins in a season with the worst injury list since 2002.

Keep on flogging this dead horse guys

Fair enough. Good response too.

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I haven't read this thread except the past couple of posts. I don't come on here much because it is often too parochial and repeated posts get boring.

All I want to say is Mick Malthouse will never get the players playing for him the way the players at the moment play for Brett Ratten. So that should end discussion.

The last time we had injuries of this magnitude was in 2002. We won our first wooden spoon under Wayne Brittain and got in a tired Denis Pagan who was only in it for the money. He was only sought because John Elliott was wanting to sure up his presidency. Look where we ended up for the next five years. It was our worst period in history.

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Silvagni

denis cops a lot of shit unfairly in some regards

the poor guy walked into a mess on the back of the black friday penalties

he signed up thinking he would come in with goddard and wells as a kickstart to a rebuild

yet we ended up a basketcase with no draft picks and no money

his back was up against the wall before he started and he was left to shuffle deckchairs on the titanic whilst it rained down his back

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

i didnt like him though

and will never forgive him for mick martyn

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

DP walked into a mess no arguement there but he them chose to make it a bigger mess.
DP had the chance to do something good but he threw a grenade and blew the place apart

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Phew! Glad you added that ...

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

Not so sure that assumption would stand up to close scutiny though. We scored 3 * #1 picks in a row before Ratten took over, (permanently). Any of those clubs on your list match that record you think?

Actually seeing as how I've got a few minutes, lets take a closer look at things.
Lets say six years is a reasonable amount of time to assess a list before a coach takes over. Malthouse takes over in 2000, Ratten in 2008, (full time).

Collingwood Wins
1994 12
1995 8
1996 9
1997 10
1998 7
1999 4
----
50

Carlton Wins
2002 3
2003 4
2004 10
2005 4
2006 3.5
2007 4
------
28.5

One's a "middle of the road team" that finished with a particular poor season the year before MM took over. The others a basket case. I don't think that you could really argue that the lists MM and Ratten took over were equivalent based on those stats.

keeps him in the group as runner.

whats his job description???

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Can we have a reason as to why you think it is pathetic.

I noticed the other day at Preston that Laidler and Rowe were both down on the bench with headsets and folders issuing instructions to players and passing on messages from the Coach. How does that sit with you?

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I feel the same.
I don't care about PR skills if we win the flag

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Haven't added much in the past; make of that what you will, but I have a different approach to this situation that may or may not have been discussed before.

After the performance of the last month it seems that faced with the possibility of losing their coach the players have finally accepted responsibility for past pathetic performances and started to bleed for the coach; whether this will translate to jumper and supporters as well we can only hope, but I genuinely believe that they want Ratts to stay and are playing like it.

I also believe (as Walls has stated) that we have a better coach today than what we started the season with due to the furnace that he has been subjected to. He has had to swallow some of his past theories that failed, and blooded youngsters against his better judgement, these lessons will stand him in good stead if he has the opportunity to continue his career as a coach. Therefore why should we pay the price for five years of development to throw him away in preference for someone that may have an axe to grind or has lost connection with the game?

That said I also believe that the discipline, focus and culture that a Mick Malthouse could bring into the club will have obvious and immediate benefits.

These guys (Ratts & MM) are polar opposites in many ways but both have a desire to succeed; even if it is for different motivations. Therefore why can't we have both?

The Bummers have pioneered this approach with their magnificent duo, and for a while there it seemed to work out. Why this is failing I have no clue but it certainly isn't from the lack of experience and nous in the box. I know that MM withdrew from his last appointment because he was forced to share the limelight, but the role that was presented from my understanding was definitely a back seat to FIGJAM and that would annoy anyone.

I am talking about a genuine coaching team where each are granted equal billing and each bring something to the table. For this to work egos must be left behind and that may be the kryptonite to this plan, but thinking outside the square, the joint forces of theses two combined will really mean that there are no more excuses regarding the skills or lack thereof in the box. We can offload some superfluous assistants to help fund this vision and if it is successful in bringing home the silver I am sure that MM will enjoy sticking it up the Filth's el presidente and associated sycophants and Ratts would love giving the Blues number 17.

Greed and ego are difficult beasts to cage, but if they can be controlled this team can bring the cup home where it belongs.

My $.02 cents.

Kerr runner.

Coach having a chuckle in the coaches box.

You are searching high and low this week Synbad. Not a lot to work with though, you would have to admit?

I think this is where your argument is flawed. You see this list of the best coaches, and use the data --based on no premierships -- to boost your sack ratten campaign.

Problem I see is this:

Ratten took over a far worse list than any of these coaches. 2 of the last 3 wooden spoons. Yet, despite this, Ratten has built up a 54% winning ratio. Malthouse & Bomber with far better (more successful as from wins per previous seasons) lists and resources could not match the same winning % output.

Malthouse won 1 flag in 10 seasons ... it's hardly world beating stuff. We could argue Ratten will match or better that output with a healthy list in our current setup at CFC.

imo, there's no coach past or present that could have won a flag with the resources, list and front office disfunction Ratten has to endure. And. Like ˆˆ crlton70 touches on above me ... at what point do the players take responsibility for attacking the ball half heartedly, and not working (running) hard?

What percentage of the mid-year mess we were in was outright Ratten's fault? What percentage was the players? What percentage did the injury list contribute?

Using Geelong and the loss of Scarlett as a test sample, they lost 3 from 4 were out of the 8 and everyone was writing them off. In contrast, our injury toll was 400% greater than Geelong's.

A healthy list, some tweaking of the line coaches and lets reduce our board so it's more in line with other club's board numbers and lets see what Ratten & the players can do, is what I reckon is pretty fair. I see sacking a coach after gaining 13 wins with the man games missed from injury & suspension as reactionary, impulsive and the kind of thing more expected from Elliot & the bad days.

You speak some sense, 70.

But expecting MM to subjugate his ego is akin to expecting the sun to rise in the West. Although it could work if his one burning desire is to punish Eddie by helping take one of their arch rivals to the top at their expense. Schadenfreude over Ego. Maybe.

Would anyone be against MM taking over as Director of Coaching?

CFC honors Ratts contract for 2013 and then depending on how he goes it can either be renewed or MM then moves into the senior coaching position for 2014 onwards.

Best of both worlds maybe?

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OK, so we have a situation where throughout AFL/VFL history, the only coach who has had a mediocre first hundred games and then gone on to turn it around to premiership success is seemingly Bomber Thompson (none of your other examples were right, there may be others but none of us can think of them). The pattern that keeps repeating is that the most successful coaches are those who show definite signs of their coaching prowess early on in their careers.

So there's a lot of history to suggest that Ratten won't succeed. One anomaly in Bomber Thompson is what people keep clinging to (If I had a buck for every time I've heard "Geelong wanted to sack Thompson and look what happened there...").

Ultimately, you're saying that Ratten has had such incredibly extenuating circumstances, that he'll defy history and do it where so many others have failed.

I don't buy that myself. I understand that he took on a club at the bottom, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as when Pagan got it. Ratten got the club just as it was primed to rise... he'd tanked his way to our 3rd No.1 pick and got Judd...

You make it sound like Ratten got the poisoned chalice. It wasn't that bad.

5 years in, and the guy is still 'learning'. We had injuries this year, sure. But he also made the call to play 3 ruckmen in an era where every other club realised that was crazy. By his own admission, guys like Casboult wouldn't have got near the senior team if we hadn't had injuries. People like Robert Walls are defending him, saying he's better now than he was in March.

Seriously, Ratten's development bell curve is shaped more like a pancake than a bell. At this rate, it'll be a decade before you'd be confident enough to say he'd finally got his shit together as a senior coach.

Ultimately, you think he'll defy history and come good. I don't. I doubt we'll ever agree, which is fair enough.