R20: Carlton def. Brisbane (Post-Match Discussion)

marciblue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:49 am

buzzaaaah wrote:

Made me pretty upset to see Gibbs running with Rich to be honest.
Rich is a 2nd rate midfielder and we are playing Brisbane for !@#$%&'s sake.
Just let Gibbs play please.

THIS!

Just makes my blood boil. Fair dinkum!
Let them worry about us!!!

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

It might have been a scrappy win against poor opposition but I sat with a guy who'd never seen a game of Aussie Rules before in his life who was amazed at the skill and pace of the game regardless of the errors that we see and get frustrated by. His mouth hung open for what seemed like a full minute when Jarrad Waite took that mark in front of goal while there would be few on here who would rate it as exceptional and it was awesome to see him rush down to the fence to get his photo taken with Captain Carlton.

It was Lil' Miss Wojee II's first game since she was a baby and she also loved it, joining in with the "Carlton, Carlton" chant, getting cross because the Lions weren't sharing the ball and telling me that the Blues are "nice". She spent half the walk to the carpark cackling loudly about when "the Lion bonked his head and started bleeding" then when we got in the car to start the 2 hour drive home she asked if she could sleep in her hand-me-down Carlton jumper.

It was nice to enjoy a game of footy through someone else's eyes.

cimm1979 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:59 am

marciblue wrote:

buzzaaaah wrote:

Made me pretty upset to see Gibbs running with Rich to be honest.
Rich is a 2nd rate midfielder and we are playing Brisbane for !@#$%&'s sake.
Just let Gibbs play please.

THIS!

Just makes my blood boil. Fair dinkum!
Let them worry about us!!!

So far it's been stated that on Sat night Gibbs played on the wing, on the ball, as a defensive sweeper down back and now he's been a tagger.

Now, there's either more than one Gibbs or he played a multitude of roles as required and judging from the reports he played well.

My only issue with Gibbs is that in stoppages he throws the ball on the boot instead of looking for handball options or even trying to break out. I don't think he like being tackled and I don't mean that hes soft, I just think he's built his junior rep on being a clean player in space and hasn't quite got used to the scrum that footy has become.

My other issue is he's become a bit dodgy below his knees, tries to surround the ball and often runs to the side of it instead of running straight at it. Hammy's a bit tight maybe?

molsey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:02 pm

cimm1979 wrote:

molsey wrote:

I don't think 2 wins over Collingwood outweighs our losses to Sydney, WCE, Adelaide (terribly), Geelong, Hawthorn (terribly), Essendon* (before injuries) and even St Kilda (terribly; very meak). I think our pace and our rucks troubled Collingwood and they don't seem to have been able to counter it that well (as yet). Sometimes match-ups just work for one list versus others. Our overall W/L record against top 8 clubs is terrible and has been a problem for the past 2 years.

Maybe, but that wasn't what you were arguing about though.

Getting players fired up for opening quarters was your complaint.

Our issue hasn't been the starts it's been maintaining the intensity.

The games we've been awful in this year have gone like this.

We come out, look a million bucks, have a few shot's on goal then sometime between the 20minute marke of the first or the 10 minute mark of the second quarter we wilt like weeds in December.

It's not the starts it's been the resilience through the middle part of the game that killed us earlier in the year. Against the Tigers, Dogs and Lions we've been much better through the whole game and not just the start. Even against the Swans we fought hard to get back in the game in the third quarter and won a lot of the stats.

cimm, the above post about Collingwood was in response to a different comment in this thread:

Quote:

I can easily see a case for top 4 given we pumped the 3rd place side twice.

apologies for the poor quoting. I don't see us being near a top 4 team irrespective of injuries, but that's probably our $64m question right now and the position the CLub takes will determine trading / coaching / delisting in the coming months I guess. I've been turned into a pessimist as you can probably guess.

My argument / frustration around Ratten's 'Word from the Coach' goes to a pretty poor position for us in last week's game; that we allowed a poor team away from home to outrun and outplay us. Do that against the Bombers and we'll be done for sure; we'll be 6 goals down very quickly and thus a bit off a bottom 8 team. I think the Collingwood examples are different; in the first game we clearly were pumped but so were the Pies (IMHO); I think our ruckwork and play-it-on at all costs surprised the Pies (as distinct from them not being switched on). IN the second game they kicked 1.5 to our 3.1 so I'd see poor kicking for goal as one of the factors there.

teknodeejay · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:30 pm **Posts:** 2897

Didn't get to watch the game until last night so missed it live which is a shame because you get much more impression of overall team performance when you can see the whole field.

From what I could see - I really like Tom Bell, and Levi Casboult could be very good. I still think Casboult is lacking for fitness as you could see him plodding from contest to contest. Does he have the tank to be a contest-to-contest runner? He and Waite together in the forward line I liked a lot. Two reasonable talls with Kreuzer making pinch hits made us look a lot more potent.

Aside from a good 15 minutes in the third quarter I thought the same things that we got punished for against Sydney still existed against Brisbane.

There are some problems that can be fixed with the current playing group and need to be fixed in a solid pre-season or else we'll continue to play like headless chooks.

Top 5-

5 - Gibbs - Possibly best game for the year, and something that I feel has been missing from the team. He, Murphy, Simpson and Judd should all be potent attacking weapons. If he goes for the Bewick tackle it's a bad call by the MRP.

4 - Carrazzo - Solid game and such a long way from his whipping boy days. Destroyed whoever he was on (Black, Rich, etc). Both he and Gibbs running at 80% efficiency really helped seal the deal.

3 - Walker - Contested king of the night. His work ethic was very good.

2 - Bell - This guy makes a difference and will only get better. Lead in clearances, and 60% of his possessions were contested.

1 - Murphy - Gets belted constantly in every contest. Opposition players maul this guy and yet he still gets a ton of it and delivers superbly. What a class act. Needs more protection from his team mates. Will help when Judd comes back next week.

Special mentions -

Curnow - tackle machine and caused a few turnovers that resulted in scoring opportunities for Carlton. Credit where it's due for a regular whipping boy.

Watson - Say what you will about Gigantor, but when you're double the amount of 1%ers as the next best person, you've contributed to the team's win. On top of that all but two of his possessions found a target.

cimm1979 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:07 pm

molsey wrote:

cimm1979 wrote:

molsey wrote:

I don't think 2 wins over Collingwood outweighs our losses to Sydney, WCE, Adelaide (terribly), Geelong, Hawthorn (terribly), Essendon* (before injuries) and even St Kilda (terribly; very meak). I think our pace and our rucks troubled Collingwood and they don't seem to have been able to counter it that well (as yet). Sometimes match-ups just work for one list versus others. Our overall W/L record against top 8 clubs is terrible and has been a problem for the past 2 years.

Maybe, but that wasn't what you were arguing about though.

Getting players fired up for opening quarters was your complaint.

Our issue hasn't been the starts it's been maintaining the intensity.

The games we've been awful in this year have gone like this.

We come out, look a million bucks, have a few shot's on goal then sometime between the 20minute marke of the first or the 10 minute mark of the second quarter we wilt like weeds in December.

It's not the starts it's been the resilience through the middle part of the game that killed us earlier in the year. Against the Tigers, Dogs and Lions we've been much better through the whole game and not just the start. Even against the Swans we fought hard to get back in the game in the third quarter and won a lot of the stats.

cimm, the above post about Collingwood was in response to a different comment in this thread:

Quote:

I can easily see a case for top 4 given we pumped the 3rd place side twice.

apologies for the poor quoting. I don't see us being near a top 4 team irrespective of injuries, but that's probably our $64m question right now and the position the CLub takes will determine trading / coaching / delisting in the coming months I guess. I've been turned into a pessimist as you can probably guess.

My argument / frustration around Ratten's 'Word from the Coach' goes to a pretty poor position for us in last week's game; that we allowed a poor team away from home to outrun and outplay us. Do that against the Bombers and we'll be done for sure; we'll be 6 goals down very quickly and thus a bit off a bottom 8 team. I think the Collingwood examples are different; in the first game we clearly were pumped but so were the Pies (IMHO); I think our ruckwork and play-it-on at all costs surprised the Pies (as distinct from them not being switched on). IN the second game they kicked 1.5 to our 3.1 so I'd see poor kicking for goal as one of the factors there.

Oh, bugger :lol:

And I agree we certainly need to be in the game early because we don't have Hawthorns ability to chase down a big lead and judging by the Bombers recent efforts a big opening lead is their best chance at winning.

buzzaaaah · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am **Posts:** 17893

cimm1979 wrote:

marciblue wrote:

buzzaaaah wrote:

Made me pretty upset to see Gibbs running with Rich to be honest.
Rich is a 2nd rate midfielder and we are playing Brisbane for !@#$%&'s sake.
Just let Gibbs play please.

THIS!

Just makes my blood boil. Fair dinkum!
Let them worry about us!!!

So far it's been stated that on Sat night Gibbs played on the wing, on the ball, as a defensive sweeper down back and now he's been a tagger.

Now, there's either more than one Gibbs or he played a multitude of roles as required and judging from the reports he played well.

My only issue with Gibbs is that in stoppages he throws the ball on the boot instead of looking for handball options or even trying to break out. I don't think he like being tackled and I don't mean that hes soft, I just think he's built his junior rep on being a clean player in space and hasn't quite got used to the scrum that footy has become.

My other issue is he's become a bit dodgy below his knees, tries to surround the ball and often runs to the side of it instead of running straight at it. Hammy's a bit tight maybe?

I can definitely tell you he was running with Rich for a large part of the game. That was on the wing esp and possibly in the centre also

buzzaaaah · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am **Posts:** 17893

Wojee wrote:

It might have been a scrappy win against poor opposition but I sat with a guy who'd never seen a game of Aussie Rules before in his life who was amazed at the skill and pace of the game regardless of the errors that we see and get frustrated by. His mouth hung open for what seemed like a full minute when Jarrad Waite took that mark in front of goal while there would be few on here who would rate it as exceptional and it was awesome to see him rush down to the fence to get his photo taken with Captain Carlton.

It was Lil' Miss Wojee II's first game since she was a baby and she also loved it, joining in with the "Carlton, Carlton" chant, getting cross because the Lions weren't sharing the ball and telling me that the Blues are "nice". She spent half the walk to the carpark cackling loudly about when "the Lion bonked his head and started bleeding" then when we got in the car to start the 2 hour drive home she asked if she could sleep in her hand-me-down Carlton jumper.

It was nice to enjoy a game of footy through someone else's eyes.

I was iffy about going to the game but my 7yo son was keen and I thought given the smashings the poor kid has witnessed this year, it'd be good for him to see a win.
He loved it too. Waved his flag in the 3rd 1/4 till his arms got sore. Had a kick outside at 1/2 time and after the game and bought 2 badges.
I'm sure if you ask him, he'll say it was a ripper game of footy.

Synbad · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:18 pm

Stamos wrote:

JohnM wrote:

We were pretty good injury-wise last year and the top 4 teams were clearly better than us.

We were 1 kick away from beating West Coast at their home ground, coming off a shorter break and missing Waite, Kreuzer and Gibbs, with Jamo on one leg and Setanta as our back-up ruckman.

We had a bad injury run last year (specifically to all our talls bar T-bird and Warnock), but this year has been disastrous.

Lost to WC previous years wooden spooners...2 times.. they finished 2 games clear of us...
... and didnt beat anyone in the top 4....

Every team has its injuries.....

AGRO · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:27 pm

buzzaaaah wrote:

Wojee wrote:

It might have been a scrappy win against poor opposition but I sat with a guy who'd never seen a game of Aussie Rules before in his life who was amazed at the skill and pace of the game regardless of the errors that we see and get frustrated by. His mouth hung open for what seemed like a full minute when Jarrad Waite took that mark in front of goal while there would be few on here who would rate it as exceptional and it was awesome to see him rush down to the fence to get his photo taken with Captain Carlton.

It was Lil' Miss Wojee II's first game since she was a baby and she also loved it, joining in with the "Carlton, Carlton" chant, getting cross because the Lions weren't sharing the ball and telling me that the Blues are "nice". She spent half the walk to the carpark cackling loudly about when "the Lion bonked his head and started bleeding" then when we got in the car to start the 2 hour drive home she asked if she could sleep in her hand-me-down Carlton jumper.

It was nice to enjoy a game of footy through someone else's eyes.

I was iffy about going to the game but my 7yo son was keen and I thought given the smashings the poor kid has witnessed this year, it'd be good for him to see a win.
He loved it too. Waved his flag in the 3rd 1/4 till his arms got sore. Had a kick outside at 1/2 time and after the game and bought 2 badges.
I'm sure if you ask him, he'll say it was a ripper game of footy.

That is all fantastic and you cant buy those memories - but I now have a cynical 19 year old and a blaze 22 year old who whilst are still rock solid Carlton supporters and members are really disilussioned with what has happened this season, after the promise and build up of the previous 3 or 4 seasons and having to live through all the crap since 2002. :wink:

camel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:54 pm

Taff wrote:

Interested to know what people thought of Waite's game. My mate at the ground said he must still be less that 100% fit as very reluctant to work off the ball.

Hard to tell with Waitey. :lol:

camel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:55 pm

ryan2000 wrote:

Am I the only one that thought that was woeful????

28 - 27 in terms of scoring shots! Brisbane being woeful in front of goal made us look better than we actually were!

- still crap disposal
- still piss fart around
- still let teams get the run through the corridor.
- still push up the ground too much!

We started the game like we didn't really give a toss and we ended the game the same way!

If it weren't for that 10min passage in the 3rd qtr we would have been stuffed.

Sorry. Don't mean to sound like a sour puss but honestly - if we gave a !@#$%& tonight we would have won by 60+ points minimum!!!

Can't disagree with any of that. Probably just as well I only got to watch the game on my iPhone.

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

Synbad wrote:

Lost to WC previous years wooden spooners...2 times.. they finished 2 games clear of us...
... and didnt beat anyone in the top 4....

Every team has its injuries.....

West Coast lost 5 H&A games in 2011.

Blue Boys · **Joined:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm **Posts:** 1234

Synbad wrote:

Stamos wrote:

JohnM wrote:

We were pretty good injury-wise last year and the top 4 teams were clearly better than us.

We were 1 kick away from beating West Coast at their home ground, coming off a shorter break and missing Waite, Kreuzer and Gibbs, with Jamo on one leg and Setanta as our back-up ruckman.

We had a bad injury run last year (specifically to all our talls bar T-bird and Warnock), but this year has been disastrous.

Lost to WC previous years wooden spooners...2 times.. they finished 2 games clear of us...
... and didnt beat anyone in the top 4....

Every team has its injuries.....

Are you trying to highlight how significant WCE improved in 2011 or are you implying we lost to a relatively $hit team?
The WCE have performed quite well this year, maybe 2010 was an aberration.

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7348

molsey wrote:

Quote:

Saturday night's 36-point victory over Brisbane may be consigned to the record books, but fresh in my mind is the opening quarter of the contest where we really got smashed in the battle for contested footy.

At that point in the game our intensity wasn't there and we weren't pushing up from one contest to the next to the next. Our poor ball use inside 50 didn't help our cause either and to complicate matters we gave away cheap free kicks and played from behind - which is why I vented my feelings fairly strongly at the quarter-time huddle.

I told the players that they needed to address these concerns immediately because if you give opposition teams an inch you've got them all night no matter who they are . . . and in the end we got the job done.

This shits me to tears - how can an AFL coach admit that they failed in getting the boys ready for the game? Why are we so turgid and it takes a rev up? Would Collingwood allow this to happen?

At least Ratten saw what was wrong and made adjustments.

After playing footy for 15 odd seasons ... it's a fact of life, some weeks are harder to get up for. A must win the week after with an old rival who you hate and owe one to?

It' pretty easy to look past the scrubs you're about to run out on the park against because your mind is already at next week.

Hard to get fired up to play the lions? Sounds realistic to me

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7348

Wojee wrote:

It might have been a scrappy win against poor opposition but I sat with a guy who'd never seen a game of Aussie Rules before in his life who was amazed at the skill and pace of the game regardless of the errors that we see and get frustrated by. His mouth hung open for what seemed like a full minute when Jarrad Waite took that mark in front of goal while there would be few on here who would rate it as exceptional and it was awesome to see him rush down to the fence to get his photo taken with Captain Carlton.

It was Lil' Miss Wojee II's first game since she was a baby and she also loved it, joining in with the "Carlton, Carlton" chant, getting cross because the Lions weren't sharing the ball and telling me that the Blues are "nice". She spent half the walk to the carpark cackling loudly about when "the Lion bonked his head and started bleeding" then when we got in the car to start the 2 hour drive home she asked if she could sleep in her hand-me-down Carlton jumper.

It was nice to enjoy a game of footy through someone else's eyes.

Yeah, awesome. Sometimes it's not about the season, the list, the coach where the team is on the table ... sometimes it's just good to go and watch somebody else in the moment, enjoying the game.

molsey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:53 pm

Braithy wrote:

molsey wrote:

This shits me to tears - how can an AFL coach admit that they failed in getting the boys ready for the game? Why are we so turgid and it takes a rev up? Would Collingwood allow this to happen?

At least Ratten saw what was wrong and made adjustments.

After playing footy for 15 odd seasons ... it's a fact of life, some weeks are harder to get up for. A must win the week after with an old rival who you hate and owe one to?

It' pretty easy to look past the scrubs you're about to run out on the park against because your mind is already at next week.

Hard to get fired up to play the lions? Sounds realistic to me

Braithy, sitting at 9 and 9 with 4 games to go; 2 of them tough and 2 of them against weaker clubs, I expected them to come out breathing fire. I understand your point but expected something different to what we saw.

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7348

ˆˆˆ If they come out flat this week, then I'm totally on your side and agree with what you're saying.

If they fire right up and ram it down the bombers throat, it could be conceivable they were looking past the lions.

glass half full, would dictate -- It's great Ratten unidentified the problem and revved them up at qtr time and got the result. Something which earlier in the season, I didn't think Ratten was capable of. Making adjustments and identifying problems.

chubbyruss · **Joined:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am **Posts:** 8631

camelboy wrote:

Taff wrote:

Interested to know what people thought of Waite's game. My mate at the ground said he must still be less that 100% fit as very reluctant to work off the ball.

Hard to tell with Waitey. :lol:

Thought he was quite good consdering all the footy he has missed over the last 6 years

Took a great mark

Hope he can remain injury, suspension & twitter free

verbs · **Posted:** Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:33 pm

Waite took four or five contested marks. Super effort.

Glad we avoided burnt toast and sardines.

R20: Carlton def. Brisbane (Post-Match Discussion)

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