But it's simply outrageous, and factually incorrect, to say that Carlton has not improved under Ratten's five-year tenure. Look at the facts, we improved every year from 2008-2011 inclusive.

You'll say that we stagnated in 2010 as we had fewer wins and ultimately went out at the same stage as 2009 (elimination final) - but 2010 was the first year post-Fevola, a year in which many Carlton fans, opposition fans and media analysts thought that we would struggle as a result of Fevola's departure. So, with Ratten at the helm, we were able to successfully rejig the forward line to produce a finals appearance (an away elimination final which could have gone either way).

The graph was trending upwards from 2008-Round 3 2012. People on here were talking premierships. There is nothing to suggest that, given a reasonable run with injury, we wouldn't at least have been one of the contenders (not saying we would have won the flag, but who knows?).

Things went awry thanks to an extraordinarily bad run with injuries ever since round 4 in which not only did key players go down but their replacements as well; and as soon as one player would come back, another would get injured, depriving the team of any semblance of continuity. Look at 4thchicken's detailed analysis - what chance did we really have?

Ratten deserves a chance next year to prove that this season was the Annus horribilis.

_________________
Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Some would say it was difficult for Ratten to make progress while Fevola was rocking the club every second week.

_________________
Bawditawaba

Some would say Ratten had agame plan to kick to Fevola at every opportunity...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Injuries don't explain 3 Swans players on their own to mop up when we bomb it indiscriminantly into F50
Injuries don't explain us kicking it into a crowded F30, yet the Swans had a paddock on occasions
Injuries don't explain our negative tagging mindset.....Gibbs on Goodes, who would have thought?????????
Injuries don't explain a lack of spread and positioning with or without the football
Injuries don't explain why Jamo was taken off the field.....OK maybe injuries can explain that one!

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

2 tall forward but noone inside 50

injuries

Anyway... 4th chicken did his analysys.

He has Hyne and Buckley etc ....as missed games.. and c ounts them... guys that were never ever gunna get a game.

Anyway.. injuries float some peoples boat.....


Analsys...??? pfffft

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

We have improved in a lot of areas over the last few years. Of that there is no doubt.

It is not about "deserving" a chance it is about him being the best or having the ability to take us to a Premiership.

I believe that what has happened is that over the past 12 months oppositions have worked us (and Ratten) out and he has no answer.

Its one thing to take a side from the bottom to finals but it takes a whole lot more to go from finals to a Premiership and that should always be our goal.

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

Injuries could be an explanation for a lot of those things. As 4th Chicken has pointed out the 22 out there on sunday are just getting to know each other. He backed it up with numbers. Swans on the other hand know each other very well. He backed that up with numbers too.

Injuries are an excuse.
The "analysis" only proved one thing. We had a bad run of injuries this year. Guess what, we already knew that. It was time wasted AFAIC.
To extrapolate that our performances are solely due to injury is just that, guesswork. And wishful thinking.
What most people are seeing is a style of play, a system of performance and consistency of effort that is below the top teams. Those things have nothing to do with injuries.
So the question you need to ask is injuries aside, are you happy with what the Carlton team has presented. I am not and as far as I am concerned, going down the same path next year is a waste of a year. We need a new approach and a change in the coaches box is the quickest and most effective way.

_________________
T E A M

If we are both in the hunt for the finals two games are key to see our "improvement"

Essendon* have severe injury troubles where we will have some key players back, if we can't get over them we have gone backwards.

The St Kilda will be the most important game to assessing how we have progressed, especially if we are both still in the fight for a final eight spot. Unfortunately the timing will most likely mean both teams will know they can't make it. Friday night game would have made it more interesting.

St Kilda is meant to be fading as its older stars age. However, last time we met they exploited our game plan and got home comfortably, they had some ruck difficulties at the time and had Rhys Stanley rucking. This time they will have McEvoy, it will be a serious challenge for the coaching staff and the available players to get over them and show exactly how far we have to go.

Unfortunately if both teams have the cue in the rack it won't tell us much, though if last game of the season is a thrashing it may help crystallize the issue for those doing the "review"

That being said a significant loss to Brisbane or a loss to Gold Coast could mean Ratten's Carlton coaching career is over.

Sam Fisher was missing as well when they beat us earlier on in the season.
If the Saints want it bad enough they will beat us.

_________________
There is no footy god

There is a valid argument for both sides of the Ratten case.

Those who refuse to acknowledge that injury plays a significant part, are just as wrong as those who insist that's all that is wrong atm.

Unfortunately, if we don't have any of our premier defenders, it's hard to truly call it, against Bombers and Saints.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

I am not sure people refuse to acknowledge the injuries? All the injuries do is mask the real problems.

No one here believes we would have a better side (on paper) without the injuries but we were struggling well before they had an effect.

In the pre season we were pathetic. We then won 3 games in a row and coming up against Essendon* who we thrashed in the previous finals. We were taken apart and it showed everyone our flaws in our systems and structures. Our players looked lost for answers.

Since then, not matter who we have sent out, we have not played four good quarters of football. The games against Port, Adelaide, St Kilda, North and even GWS were the most damning.

IMO the wins we have had have been mostly because of pure ability. Almost every time we come up against well structured and well drilled sides we struggle. Every club now knows that if they tie up the ball and close up any space we are in trouble. Give us space we will tear anyone apart.

If anyone has seen us live in the last 12 months against these sides you will see them hold zone, positions, structures etc. We look like an under 12 side all hunting the ball or running forward of it.

Ratten, Sticks etc are good people but IMO they aren't the people to take us to a Premiership and that should always be our goal.

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

That is something i am sure most agree. Five years is enough to show what you can do. Ratts has been unlucky this year but that is the nature of the game.

I was just pointing out that injuries do affect performance and the sync of the team and could easily explain the things 99prelim said they couldn't.

Look at the super drilled and organised Swans. At one stage this year they lost 3 out of 4. Look at who was out of their team that month. Mention that month to a swans fan and the first excuse they will give you for that month is injuries to key players.

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.

exactly, cimm.

it's not black and white (yet)!

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Jamison needs shoulder surgery, he's been playing with one arm at about 50% his normal output & efficiency.

Laidler played 3 games -- we were undefeated in all games he finshed.

Henderson - our best KPD

Take the best 3 defenders out of any top 4 team and they'll struggle. Take them out of a top 8 team and they'll finish 12th. Sure we have no depth at any KPP, and the guys we did have were all underdone or inured themselves. Can Ratts be put on the hook for that? We are too dependant on guys like Laidlaw and a healthy Jamo, Waite Henderson etc ... Again, I'm not sure this is Ratt's fault?

Hopefully the review will ask the leadership & playing group on their thoughts and what they want, and then do a thorough review and in those circumstances, for some reason I have faith the right decision will be made.

We are close right now. And if we had our best list, this year's flag is more open than any recent one I can remember. We'd be right up there imo ... That is a hard fact to ignore.

Away from the topic again and back to Ratten, Sticks, reviews and injuries.
The way I see it is any which way we will improve next year.
If Ratten is gone, it's Ratten's inability and his stuctures that hurt us and not the injuries to key personal and back ups.
If Ratten is there, Ratten is vindicated and it's not his stuctures or his inability to coach but the injuries to key personal and back ups (depending on injuries next year of course).
Then another debat begins.

Or if some of his line coaches are sacked while Ratten is retained, it's a perceived weakness in the supporting cast, ie forwards & stoppages.

Happens at the WCE A LOT.

New blokes are brought in to help Woosh because tactically he's not innovative. Relies on new assistants to get the game plan right and he just make sure it gets done.

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.

If only this were true.

Injuries were no excuse in the loss to Essendon* (game almost over at half time), St Kilda (they were without McEvoy and Fisher) and Adelaide (without Taylor Walker) who thrashed us.
Against Port we were hit hard by injury but should have been good enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's necessarily Ratts fault however - we lack quality inside mids and talls who consistently take a strong contested mark.

_________________
There is no footy god